Hosts: Ronn Ruiz and Martin Canchola
Guest: Sheri Killingsworth, Vice President, Marketing and Communications at Willow Bridge Property Company
Martin: All right, so today is going to be an off the Charts episode of the multifamily podcast with Ronn and Martin. We are so lucky to have on the one and only Sheri Killingsworth, Vice President of Marketing and Communications at Willow Bridge Property Company. And you probably know them formally as Lincoln Property Companies Residential Division. We’re going to be talking about her early days in multifamily pivotal moments in our career. Learn more about the story of Willow bridge and how it actually all came to be, and also dive in the process of rebranding from Lincoln to Willow Bridge as well. It is our pleasure to introduce Sheri Killingsworth, VP of Marketing and Communications, for the Willow Bridge Property Company. Welcome to The Multifamily Podcast, Sheri.
Sheri: Hi, thank you so much for having me. It’s great to be here. It’s great to be here to represent Willow bridge.
Ronn: Yeah, we got to say it like three times, right. Well, honestly, Sheri, it’s such an honor to have you on the show. You were definitely on our shortlist. The timing was ironic, because you were on our shortlist a year ago, over a year ago. Yeah, it just seems like the month flies by and we heard about this transition from our internal team going into your conference.
Ronn: And I know last time when we started, I think it was that social media conference earlier in the year, you had mentioned about this upcoming change. And so, this is huge. So, we cannot wait to share more with our audience about that. But let’s kick some things off, giving our audience a little background of how you entered the multifamily vortex as we spoke right, and also about your career path in multifamily. Obviously going from director back sheet, I mean, even before we knew you, right? Marketing Director, so marketing director and all the way up to now VP of Communications and Marketing. So, we wanna hear your story, sister.
Sheri: And it is a vortex because you get sucked in. Sucked in and you never you leave you, never want to leave. You think you want to go but you don’t. You don’t. Yeah, we have this thing here at Willow Bridge. It’s called boomerangs. So, we have team members that leave and then come back, and we have so many. And so, we like to call them boomerangs. But I have been a lifer here at Willow Bridge. So, I graduated from Texas Tech, with a degree in public relations and management and I could not find a job whenever I graduated. And I was like, get me out of this dusty city, this windy city. And I didn’t want to wait tables anymore. Oh, I would do anything. And I had a friend who was from Dallas, and she had worked for Lincoln at the time. Some summers her dad was in the industry, actually had a flooring company. And she got me an interview with her old RPM, Holly Stuckey. I don’t know, maybe Holly’s listening in. And so, I got an interview, and they hired me. Holly hired me. She had me sell her a can of Coke actually.
Ronn: You remember?
Sheri: Yes. Oh my God, because I was so nervous. But yeah, so she hired me. And that’s the only reason I moved to Dallas, was to work, leasing apartments. And yeah, I worked at, it was called Lincoln crossing in North Dallas. Yep. And so, I worked on site for about a year. And then the position in the village in Dallas came open, the village marketing director. So that was, you know, 14 different apartment communities for those of you that don’t know, and it’s kind of the hub where everything started, really, for Lincoln. So, it’s 14 different communities right there together. Now, it’s different, it’s so different now. But I went through so many different interviews to get that position. And so, that’s really where I learned everything about multifamily marketing, was there in the village and I was there for like nine years. And it was such a great experience. And I made some of my best friends there in the village and just learned so much. And then Jennifer Santokus actually created the role for me for national marketing manager in the corporate office and promoted me. So, I owe that to Jennifer. I owe a lot of things to Jennifer, as do so many people in this industry.
Ronn: We all do.
Ronn: Very instrumental and supportive.
Sheri: Yes, yeah. So, Jennifer gave me the opportunity. And I moved up to the corporate office in Dallas. And so, I was her national marketing manager for five years, and learned so much, did so many different things. And I really had the opportunity to grow. And that’s where I really learned to design a lot of things. And Jennifer gave me the opportunity to do so many different types of things. It’s where I learned everything about SEO and branding and social media. And, you know, whenever I was in the village, my space was just starting.
Ronn: We’re aging ourselves.
Sheri: You know. So, it was just insane. So, I just really grew up and learned so much from Jennifer in my time. And then whenever she decided that it was time for her to move to Pinnacle at the time, then I was promoted into her position, Scott Wilder, and Margot Hefner, they gave me the opportunity to move up into the VP role. And so yeah, I just feel like I’ve had multiple lifetimes with this company, they just keep giving me chances.
Ronn: I mean, nine years that one, quote, unquote, property. I mean, even though it is a village, as you mentioned, it sounds like it was their flagship, as you shared. So, what great exposure for you too, right? And obviously, good for you, good for them.
Sheri: Yeah, it’s fantastic.
Martin: All the good marketing mix and been up during the time in my space, what a time.
Ronn: Talking about centralized leasing. Right now, you’re like, been there done that.
Sheri: Yeah, that’s old news.
Ronn: Look at the village, what are you talking about?
Sheri: Right, that’s right.
Martin: So, Sheri, so being in the position you are today, what were some pivotal moments of opportunity that really made a difference along your career to get you where you are today?
Sheri: Well, I feel like it’s, you know, those people like the Scott, and Margot and Jennifer, who really believe in you, and give you the opportunities to move ahead. You know, we as a company really believe and promoting from within and giving people the opportunity and training them, turning them up. And I think if we weren’t like that as a company, and if, you know, you don’t believe in your own team, to grow into what you believe that they could be, then you’re really missing out. And so, I think that that’s, I mean, that’s what, that’s the only reason that I’m here, and I’m as successful as I am today, is because of those people that believed in me for so many years. And they taught me, and they let me grow into this field and kind of focus on the things that I really loved and didn’t make me focus on the things that I was not great at, you know. Yeah, yeah. They just kind of let me grow and challenge me at the same time but yeah.
Ronn: That’s amazing. I mean, great leaders make great leaders. And obviously, you know, you were one for the call in, like bring it on. Through the years, obviously, now, in your role, obviously, we know it can be challenging at times to bring teams together. I mean, this is probably another moment, right? Where you’re like, you’re rah, rah in the troops to, you know, kind of jump on this new mission at hand, which is hey, we’re now Willow Bridge, right? Talk about identity crisis for those, especially the tenure people. So, how do you inspire your teams to align themselves with your company’s goals and trajectory? Great question, right, for what you’re doing right now.
Sheri: So, I feel like, and we’ve been doing this a lot for the past, gosh, well, since before COVID, because that’s when we first started our partnership with Cadillac Fairview. And that was being really open and transparent with our team and being very communicative about what was happening. And not being behind closed doors all the time. And sharing information and if you share information, people are less likely to be closed off and scared about what’s happening. And there’s really, there’s no reason to be so closed off and to not share in the vision and the mission and what’s actually happening. Because if they can buy into the vision with you, then they can get excited with you and buy into it and help you achieve it. Honestly, I know it sounds like the dream but it really actually is and you know every time I would learn Just a little bit about what was happening, a little bit about the company that was going to be our new shareholder, a little bit about their vision, I would come back and have a meeting with a team and talk to them about it. Anytime I felt like I could share something, I would always come back and talk to the team about it. And they felt empowered. Because they had that bit of knowledge. So, I think that that’s really helped. So, every time, even with the whole entire company, even beyond just the marketing team, even beyond just the national marketing team, and then the regional marketing team, for the whole entire company, whenever we’ve been going through this process of, you know, whenever we first had Cadillac Fairview, when we had the partnership, and then it went through to the full, you know, the ownership earlier this year, we were very communicative with all of our, you know, our whole employee base. Sending out emails and posting things on our intranet, and just making sure everyone felt like they knew what was happening, instead of like we were holding something back. And I think, you know, whenever you are so transparent, it just helps with the buy-in.
Ronn: That’s huge. Definitely, definitely feel part of the village, part of a team.
Sheri: Right, right. Absolutely.
Martin: Yeah, transparency is definitely key. Because either you, you got to put out the chatter, or there’s gonna be other chatter going on out there.
Sheri: Right, you have to control the narrative, or it’ll be created for you.
Martin: So how did you navigate your career to take over marketing for NMHC’s second largest management company nationwide. I mean, that’s a pretty big, pretty big accomplishment.
Sheri: I think it took control of me. You know, I feel like we, you know, we don’t have at current moment, we don’t have a huge business development team. And we’ve been around for 65 years. So, we have gained a lot of our business because of our reputation. And because of just the way our ops team works, right, we are a great operator. We run lean and mean, we have reputation for running lean and mean but we are a great operator. And we have great relationships in the industry. And I think that that’s really helped us get to where we are today. I think a lot of that is changing, because there’s so many new players in the game, buying properties. And there’s so many, there’s so many more competitors out there that we are having to up our game, which is part of, you know, our strategy and what we’re doing moving forward. But I think that it’s, a lot of it lends to just our people overall. And how, you know, how we do business and how we treat not just our employees, our residents, but also our clients and just how we do business every day.
Ronn: You may think something to your credit too, at least what I noticed on the vendor side, on the supplier side, is not only do you, you know, obviously earn the business, but you guys have a great retention rate. It’s what it seems like.
Ronn: With your properties. I mean, we see a lot of things going on and you know.
Sheri: We try, I don’t know, there’s a lot of churning, churning and burning.
Ronn: There it is but I mean, it seems more consistent on your end.
Ronn: That’s something to say. I mean, we all want that retention, right. For the stability of both.
Sheri: Yeah, it’s hard on everybody to try to transition communities. You know, it’s hard on the teams on the ground. It’s hard on the management team, whether it’s going in and out. It’s hard on the ownership group. Like it’s just, it’s a very tedious task, and it’s not easy for either group.
Ronn: Yeah, for sure. So, the big question. Let’s hear about her Willow Bridge story, how did it, be really excited? I’m really excited to learn more. And I know we shared some stuff earlier in the year. But I want to hear the real story now, the full story.
Sheri: Yeah. Yeah, so we had to change our name because Cadillac Fairview and Ontario teachers’ pension plan, they purchased the company. They purchased the residential side of Lincoln property company. So, the commercial side was purchased by another company. So, the founder of our company, the whole Lincoln property company, which is Mac Pogue. So, he was the founder and 65, right? And so, the commercial side, they get to keep the Lincoln name which just fine, that’s fine. We get to start a whole new legacy and we’re very excited about it. But with that new legacy, you know, we wanted there to be a tie to this heritage that is so rich. And we’re still the same company and it’s all the same people. And we’re not being incorporated into the infrastructure of our new shareholder, we’re still a standalone. So, it was really important to us to have a tie to everything that we’ve built in our foundation. So, to Willow Bridge, Willow, is a tie back to that heritage. So, our very first property in Dallas that we built was Willow Creek. And the second one was Willow Wick. And so, then the Willow tree was actually a feature on our, on some of our like, internal awards called the gold medallion awards. I think you guys are familiar with our gold medallion awards. So, it’s sort of like our internal academy awards for our community teams. But it actually has a Willow tree on it and there were actual like, gold medallion. Just kidding. But, so yeah, so those Willow trees were on these awards. And then fast forward, we have this program that’s called the circle of honor. And it is a program where whenever you get promoted from on-site team to a regional team, from a regional team to national, it’s called the circle of honor, and you’re inducted into this program. And at one point in time, we’re giving a little pendant, or you could get a ring, and on this ring, or this pendant, it had a Willow tree on it. So, it all ties back, right? To this symbol of the tree, which is all about growth and strength, and perseverance, right. And so, it just all kind of made perfect sense. And then the bridge, of course, is to tie the past to the future. So that’s where it comes from.
Ronn: That’s amazing. And to have the willow tree and the words in.
Sheri: Do what, I’m sorry?
Ronn: Was that purposeful back in the day to have the willow tree?
Sheri: It was, it was.
Ronn: You already paid homage too. That’s awesome.
Ronn: It has to be incorporated in this next chapter?
Sheri: Yeah. So, I feel like whenever you just hear the name just randomly, it’s like what in the world, I don’t even understand what that means. But then whenever you get some of the story, and you understand that it’s a tie back to everything that we’ve built, and that it really stands for something. And it’s what makes our company great, which it’s strong, and it’s purposeful, and it’s authentic, and it’s resolute, and it’s down to earth. And that it’s rooted in growth. Right. And so that’s what we wanted.
Ronn: That’s it.
Martin: The roots, no.
Sheri: That’s right, strong roots.
Martin: I love the Willow tree. I love that it’s all tied together. And I love hearing the story on how it came to be. So, thank you for that.
Martin: So being a digital marketing agency, we’re really interested to hear about the rebranding process. What were some of your challenges that your team faced? And any big wins along the way from rebranding Lincoln to Willow Bridge?
Sheri: Yeah, it was a challenge. I would say, you know, we started with a branding team, an internal team, like we have hired before, which is a design agency, I would say and not a branding agency. They do brand, obviously but they’re a design agency. And they work a lot with Cadillac Fairview. And so that’s how we came to be partners with them. And whenever we were partnering with them, they would give us to this process, like 60 names at a time. And it was quite overwhelming. But it was really interesting to be in the room with our new CEO, and then like our chief accounting officer, and then our president, the president of development. So, you have all these different types of people with all these different backgrounds, and then you’d have me, the only marketing person. And everybody’s opinions about the names. And so, it was really interesting to try to dive to the process and try to figure out how we were all going to work together through the process, to actually get to a name that we really wanted and that was going to work for the company. So that was the challenge. The big win was, of course, getting to where we are. Which is something so totally different from anything that we expected, from what we thought I mean, but we’re all very, very happy. So, and it’s much unlike anything, I think that’s in our space from any of our competitors.
Ronn: Yeah, especially, yeah, with the, I mean, the legacy that you carry, obviously is strong, right? And so, I can only imagine how much emotion there was tied into somebody, you know.
Ronn: And you on the marketing side, like you mentioned, including them, you know, in the design side of just picturing it, okay, like now we have two words, not one word, you know, like we ran properties if needed, like, you know, if you have interview or something, you know.
Sheri: Yeah, so we were, and unveiled the name at our conference. So, we tried to hold it very close, so that only, you know, 20 people or something across the whole company knew the name. And our CEO, like, you know, unveiled the name and we had a, we broadcast it to the whole entire company at the same time. So, everybody found out the name at the exact same time. And so, we were standing backstage, myself, and Megan, who is our Director of Communications, and I was just, I was like praying and just pacing back and forth. And I was like, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, looks at the scope. And then, once he said it, and people applauded, I almost fainted. I was so happy.
Ronn: That’s awesome.
Ronn: That’s definitely a diverse array of you guys got there, right? With, I mean, hundreds of hundreds of stakeholders, right? To buy into that story.
Ronn: So, speaking of which, a little transition here. But speaking of the whole diversity in DEI, what are Willow Bridges priorities back in Lincoln days or anything moving forward?
Sheri: Yeah, so moving forward, we, I would say before, you know, we have a lot of curriculum surrounding DEI. But I think moving forward, we’re gonna have a much more, a stronger focus on it, because now we have a new SVP of people and culture. So, I’m very excited about that. So that’s a brand-new role for us to have, so that and she is going to head up what is going to be our new HR function. So, all of that is being built out, which is going to help unburden so many different things at our community level. But within that is going to come leadership training and mentoring in a more built-out training department for property management, and then for everything else, asset management and development and all of that and operations. But I look forward to the things that are coming in that department, because we haven’t really been able to focus on it, because we just haven’t had the people or the structure. So, one of the big things in our strategy moving forward, is working on that structure, because we just haven’t really had a national kind of organizational structure to manage a company this size. So, we’re going from five regions, really, to kind of one company, is what we’re, one of our big strategies moving forward. So, I’m excited for the things DEI that are coming. Yeah, with our people and culture.
Ronn: That’s huge.
Martin: A lot of fun stuff on the horizon for diversity and inclusion.
Martin: So, being that this rebrand is so new, what does the future hold for Willow Bridge? What are some big plans for the future?
Sheri: Yeah, so like I was saying, we were an R. It’s still five regions but we’re very entrepreneurial. And now we’re more moving into a more streamlined, not totally centralized, I’m not gonna say that, more streamlined organization. But we have really ambitious growth plans to where we have to scale. And we’re just not really set up right now for that. So, we have to focus on how can we work on changing our organization structure to be able to scale that growth. So, that’s what we’re going to be working on. And, you know, everything is just evolving so much. We need to start evolving with it. And we need to start making some changes, we are looking at our, all of our technology. One of our big initiatives is to, like I said, unburden our on-site teams. Because right now, as a third party manager, we manage so many different platforms and so many different systems, and we expect our onsite teams to be able to log in to all of them and do all of these things and lease apartments and, you know, take care of the residents and, you know, do a little bit of everything. So, one of our biggest goals is to figure out how we can unburden our on-site teams and our regional teams, most near and dear to me, obviously, it’s our marketing team, how can I unburden them, so that they don’t have so many systems to log into?
Ronn: I think that’s huge. And that’s definitely what our industry, I think, is looking at as a whole as well, right? From the root of acquisition and just really understanding how we could best support the on-site, so that way they can best support the, you know, the residents, obviously, that’s one of the reasons why we’re all here.
Sheri: Yeah, yeah.
Ronn: Yeah, I remember when I was on site, I used to say, or when I transitioned from on site to the vendor site, I remember saying like if we could reduce some of the stuff, I was advocating for the site, right?
Ronn: We could do so much more. You know, as far as retention and resident, you know, events or rent increases, because you give stellar service. And in the world of tech, obviously, we’re one of them. We want to make sure that we are low impact. And we’d love to follow you along or walk along with you on that journey, because we too, are looking at things like that as well, how we can best support on the marketing side. So that way, it’s less things for them to do. So, any other news you want to share or programs about Willow Bridge before we transition on?
Sheri: No, I think just, you know, just watch along on our journey.
Ronn: Watch me, watch me.
Sheri: Watch me. See what we come up with. It’s exciting the new, you know?
Ronn: That’s it.
Martin: Yes, all the new social pages, everything should be set up for them to kind of find and…
Martin: Start building because you’re building all those up right now as well, too.
Sheri: Yes, we are. We have, most everything changed over. And yeah, one of the difficult things is whenever you want everyone to find out the name at the same time, so you can’t really do a lot of prework, you know, to changing everything. And there’s a lot of work still to be done to changing the name across the company. So, there’s still some Lincoln things out there that we’re trying to change. But yeah, I think we’re in a really good spot, but I think there’s exciting things coming.
Martin: A little bit of a side question. When you guys decided on the name Willow Bridge, and it was finalized, how was it picking the domain, the.com? Was it a challenge? Did you have to buy it in the aftermarket? Was it available already?
Sheri: It was a challenge. It was a challenge, you know, even deciding, you know, our name officially is Willow Bridge property company. And like when do we use the property company? When do we not use the property company? And do we use, you know, property company in the domain? Are we going to use PC? Are we going to use this? Is it going to be this and what are we going to do about the charity? And what are we going to do about the internet and so many different things, but we actually were able to get, we moved through with Willow Bridge Prop Co, as what we used, yeah. And we’re able to get it but Willow bridge.com, we were not able to get that unfortunately.
Martin: I mean the Lincoln domain, the three-letter domain, that is just.
Sheri: That remains with…
Martin: You don’t get those kinds of domains anymore.
Sheri: No, no.
Martin: That’s a really good one too.
Sheri: Yeah. So that remains with the commercial side.
Martin: Yeah, maybe we can get the initials later on for Willow Bridge.
Sheri: Maybe, WPC.
Martin: I’m gonna keep an eye out for that and see what we can do for that.
Martin: To keep the acquisition going. So now for the last segment of the podcast, the lightning round. It’s gonna be all about your strategic vision, leadership qualities and industry knowledge and how you actually navigate challenges. Will ask you some pressing questions, other multifamily professionals and owners would love to get your perspective on. Are you ready?
Martin: All right, so what do you perceive as the most significant challenges facing the multifamily sector in the next five to 10 years? And how are you preparing your organization to address some?
Sheri: Most significant challenges? I feel like it’s always with technology. And how do we not implement too many technologies? How do we choose the correct ones? And I would say that we are going to hire a chief technology officer. And so, that’s one way we’re going to do that.
Ronn: That’s awesome. That’s huge. So how do you foster a culture, with that being said, with innovation within your company? Do you have an example maybe of an innovative idea or something that originated from within your team actually, that was successfully implemented? Maybe it’s the Willow Bridge story.
Sheri: I think I would say that we still, you know, we were talking a little bit about how we have each region and they’re very entrepreneurial. We still want to foster that. And we still want every region to be entrepreneurial, and to have those innovative ideas. And whenever they do, we want to raise them to the top, so that every region can then implement them. Because we don’t want to stifle creativity. And, you know, we want to empower them. For our team, I don’t know, I would say an innovative idea or practice, you know, for the national team, we implement a lot of platforms and communication systems that they will get out of email. Like we use Trello, and we use Slack, which is not anything really innovative, but for our Willow Bridge space, it is, to help us manage projects and communication, just so that we are not sitting in our email all day and using that to manage tasks and projects.
Ronn: Yeah, especially in a rut more and more of a remote world, right? Because these teams together literally, yeah, product management systems.
Martin: Next question. How do you balance maximizing profits with ensuring an exceptional resident experience? What initiatives or programs have you put in place to enhance the resident journey overall?
Sheri: It’s a good question. And we are at one of our big strategies moving forward. Over the next five years and we are going to be hiring a director of resident experience next year in January, so excited about that. So, someone we’re adding to our team. But ensuring that exceptional resident experience we’re, we’ve been looking at all of our technology piece of it, because from a marketing side, that’s what we have the most control over and seeing where we’re failing in the integration and kind of what that resident experience is. Because we have too many, right? There’s too many integrations, there’s too many things we’re asking them to log into, and seeing where we can clean things up and make things more efficient for the resident and just make their lives easier for whatever they’re, you know, applying leasing, moving in, you know, getting their pet sitter, cleaning service, whatever it may be. You know, reserving their amenity, just really trying to, you know, research and make sure that that is a much more seamless process. Because again, we have so many different systems and so many different ownership groups that use different things. It’s hard to manage all of those and make sure that, you know, they’re all working seamlessly. So, we’ve been working on that.
Ronn: That’s totally huge, especially maybe around the resident journey. I mean, we’re all consumers at the end of the day and we all have an increased-on demand. Right? So, even that’s your policy, but like yeah…
Sheri: Yeah, yeah.
Ronn: So, at the end and again, you got to maximize profits, right?
Sheri: Yeah, exactly.
Ronn: We could add more people but that doesn’t help with the bottom line. So, what is your criteria? You mentioned about expansion, I’m really excited about that. And I know that you have a leader, business development team, but what are your, what’s the criteria for identifying new markets or regions for expansion? Has that been a topic and how do you evaluate the potential success or risks, obviously, associated in entering any new areas?
Sheri: I think it is typically, we do have a new asset management team, development team, which is exciting. I would say that we haven’t really gotten into new markets where we haven’t been. Recently, we have gone into and are growing our Seattle market. Because it is difficult to get into a market where you aren’t, right? To try to source employees and you know, it’s just really difficult, especially whenever we are already in so many other markets that we do support. I think that one of the exciting initiatives that we will be looking at is, whenever we are going into a new market, is purchasing management companies.
Ronn: Daily podcast.
Sheri: That, so you know, that’s it easy, not cheap and easier way, right? To get into a market as opposed to buying, building one deal, hiring because you don’t have the resource. You know, you don’t have boots on the ground already. It’s difficult.
Ronn: Yeah, for sure. Well, hopefully you’ll come back soak our markets stronger than ever.
Sheri: A rumor, rumor.
Ronn: Teamwork in our backyard.
Sheri: Yeah, me too. I’m ready to come back.
Ronn: That’s it.
Martin: All right. Well, it looks like I mean, that’s a wrap for the lightning round and this episode of the multifamily podcast. Thank you again, Sheri, for joining us today. We wish you and Willow Bridge well in your new endeavors and I know your teams are really gonna set new heights and standards for our industry. Ron closing thoughts?
Ronn: I mean, obviously I always say that they go so fast, right? I have 20 million other questions, but of course we can and hopefully in our next one on one, possibly in Vegas for Optec.
Sheri: Well, gosh, yes, I’ll be there. Look for the team in purple.
Ronn: I was gonna ask you. Okay, so purple.
Sheri: Yes, look for the team in purple. We will be there.
Ronn: We presume that you guys are gonna come out like, you know.
Sheri: Yes, absolutely.
Ronn: Like I totally, obviously, I’ve known you forever, followed your success. I remember when you and Jay stack were a team, of all teams than what it is today. As a senior career and just what you’ve done for Lincoln, obviously, you’re a very valued partner of ours as well. We love working with you guys. I’m so excited for your future and the innovation. I mean, it almost seems like it’s a whole new startup. Am I getting the right thing here, like with legacy?
Ronn: Benefits of recreating who you are.
Sheri: Yeah, I mean, it definitely feels that way. You know, we have this great strength of, you know, the Lincoln that we were, this great foundation. And all of these resources and the strategy and the strength of commitment for where we want to go. So, it’s a really exciting time. It’s an exciting time. So yeah, well, thank you so much. Yeah, absolutely. It was a pleasure. Thank you, guys so much.
Martin: Thank you. All right, everyone, you know what to do, make sure to subscribe to the multifamily podcast at MultifamilyPodcast.com and get your free marketing analysis or revocation report card at ApartmentSEO.com. Also, if you have been thinking about bringing your Google Ads search strategy in house, then take some time to hit the ads manager. That’s AdzManager.com, to learn more about our latest AI innovation and set up a demo today. Until next time, bye everyone.