If You’re Not Showing Up in AI…You Don’t Exist (Multifamily Wake-Up Call) ft. Michael Moon, Director of Product at ApartmentSEO.com  

Co-Hosted By Ronn Ruiz and Martin Canchola, Co-Founders at ApartmentSEO.com 

 

Martin: Welcome to The Multifamily Podcast with Ronn and Martin. Powered by ApartmentSEO.com. Today is going to be a fun topic, and of course, one of my favorites, around if you’re not showing up in AI, you don’t exist. This is your official Multifamily wake-up call. You know, we know residents are continuing to Google, apartments.com, different social platforms, and now they’re going straight into conversational AI search. So the question is, are you showing up there or are you invisible today? And now we’re going to be diving into one of the biggest shifts happening in our space right now, and that is AI search, what it actually means for Multifamily. We’ve got someone on the show who’s not just talking about it, but actually helping build the future for us. I’d like to introduce you to Michael Moon, director of Product Development here at Apartment SEO. With a deep proptech background from Knock CRM, and others to product leadership, and now focused on AI-driven search marketing innovation. Michael Moon, welcome to the Multifamily podcast. 

Michael: Thank you, Martin. I’m really glad to be here. 

Ronn: Michael Moon, we are so excited to have you. I cannot wait for the audience to hear this upcoming episode. And I know that you have a lot of good nuggets to share. I know this because we talk about it internally, and now you’re going to unveil, and you know, pull the curtain back, so others can get all the nuggets. So thank you for joining. I can’t wait to jump in. 

Martin: So let’s start at the beginning. Before product, before AI, how did you even get pulled into Multifamily and PropTech? 

Ronn: That’s a good one. 

Michael: Well, that’s a good question. I think everyone has a similar random story, I’ll say. But I mean, I actually just, I was waiting tables to a senior VP of a property management company, and that’s kind of where my entire career started. So I actually started in leasing. I worked for the Irvine company. I was in the president’s club in leasing for the Irvine company. And then I, and then I moved into PropTech with On Site.com, we sold to RealPage, and then I also got into a little bit of marketing. And then I was a founding member of Knock CRM and also moved the resident movement portal. And so, you know, two exits, a founding member of two companies as well. And so I’ve seen kinds of products going from the genesis and kind of its infancy over to a fully fledged product that’s kind of used all throughout the industry. And so, you know, some things that I’ve actually learned about being in this industry, because you can kind of tell, you can spot them when someone’s in the industry or not. It’s like when a certain term is used, like they do not use terms or things like that. But I think what kind of really helps me understand this industry is, it’s not just the nuance of this industry, but it’s how the nuances actually relate to each other. You can’t learn that from a handbook, that’s for sure. You really have to have the experience, and that’s kind of helped me, I think, in my career. And one of the reasons why I think you guys hired me, excuse me, but I can make decisions quickly because I understand all of the context. And so with that being said, walking into a product leadership role, it kind of lent to the progression of my career and looking at our customers’ problems and then finding solutions for your product. 

Ronn: That’s so awesome. And of course, you were president’s club at Irvine Company Leasing. No doubt that’s what inspired you to know that you’re going to be great in this industry. I like that story by the way. And yeah, that’s a good way to start because you truly get it from all elements. So obviously, you’ve had a pretty unique path in our industry, starting from the customer. Right. And seeing firsthand how the consumer responds to all things marketing. You’ve also been in implementation, you’ve been in customer success, and now you’re in product for probably the second or third time. So it’s not new to you. How did being that close to operators actually shape really how you think about building products? 

Michael: That’s a good question. Like, you know, like how I mentioned where having the knowledge base of how the nuances actually relate to each other, that was super important of actually being on the operator side. When we’re talking about not just the customer problem, but the renter problem as well. Some of the conversations that I have, some of the things that I’m designing from a product perspective, is that it’s some of the most meta thinking that I’ve ever had to do. Thinking about the renter, thinking about the customer, thinking about us as an agency. And so, really kind of having that experience on the operator side really helped a lot. But then going into a PropTech company where I was deep within operations, coming from a leasing consultant role to essentially a software consulting role in customer success with on-site, I had exposure to many companies, many different structures, people, operations, tech stacks. And I had to learn very fast. And something that I’ve kind of garnered throughout every single role because I was always deep and I had to know what product I was representing. And that stemmed from, I had to learn about the customer problem, you know, that I’m helping to solve. And, you know, customer success to me is not customer service. They are actually very different. And so for me to understand what the customer was feeling, I had to understand the product really well. And so I have become a product expert in each of the companies that I’ve been with, which kind of, again, naturally got me to progress into a role like this. And so I have firsthand experience, lots of exposure to other companies as well too. So I got to see kind of the through line that many companies would kind of have a similar problem because they’re not talking to each other. But for me as, you know, as I was managing just a set of companies and then at Knock, when I was VP of implementation, every single company that came in, I really got to see, hey, there are patterns here, and there are problems that go beyond what some of these products kind of solve. It’s actually a little bit more than that. And so that’s why my approach to product isn’t necessarily on features, and kind of just the thing that we’re selling. And so I have a different eye, and I kind of dig into the why of, you know, what are we actually providing for the client versus what are we selling as a product? 

Ronn: That’s brilliant. 

Martin: And now coming back to Apartment SEO again, on the product side, what did you see in the market that made you feel like we need to build something different right now? 

Michael: Well, you know, we can’t really deny the, just the hype. We’ll call it a hype of AI, the tsunami, the tsunami of AI. And coming from all directions. And so something that I’ve noticed, especially coming from, you know, obviously, the lens of a digital marketing agency, there has been a shift in renter behavior. And this has been so, so fascinating and satisfying, I would say, for my role, just doing research with the end user and with our clients, is because, you know, our renters are just the end user, is the general public. They’re engaging with technology in a way that we haven’t really done before. And so to kind of get ahead of it and really dig into that. I have seen a lot of AI search data and done so much research every single day that I will kind of die on this hill. But I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the renter behavior and how they’re actually searching for apartments today, just through patterns and actual data. And so, you know, essentially what they’re doing is they’re going to these AI chatbots, these AI models to help make a decision that would take so much computing and cognitive effort, and then making it so much easier. But then they’re still making the final decision. So they’re going to chatbots, getting these recommendations, and then doing their own research. And so that kind of breaks up what were traditionally kind of seeing with even SEO or paid ads or even social media. It’s a completely new practice. And so AI now is the starting point, right? It’s a place where it’s going to assist with some of the cognitive load that a human would do, but we’re still like in the pilot seat making that final decision. And so with, in property management, as we all know, it’s, you know, where it takes some time to learn because there’s so many, I believe it’s because there’s a lot of risk if we just jump into some, one thing, it needs to be battle tested. That is my commitment as we’re releasing a product. And so I don’t want this industry to lag. I don’t believe that we have to. And so but, you know, we’re seeing this in kind of e-commerce. It’s all completely bleeding into the apartment search kind of behavior. And so when I saw this kind of renter behavior shift, I saw an opportunity where this is a customer problem for our, the property management companies that we work with, or it will be in the future. And so this is, I saw this as an opportunity to kind of lead that charge of coming up with a solution so we wouldn’t have to put our, you know, the renter and, you know, property connection in a place where they cannot be found. 

Ronn: That’s so true. And by the way, I completely agree. I think tsunami is the right way to say it. Right. Because it’s bam. It’s hitting us, and it’s shaking people up. Right. If you think of a true tsunami, it’s making waves, and it’s a good thing. Right. It’s elevating our industry. So let’s dive into product for a minute. When you’re deciding on what to build, I truly want to know what is your filter? And as we mentioned, there is a lot of noise right now around AI. 

Michael: And that’s a really good way to put it. Because if you could visualize what’s in my head, I think of AI right now, we’ll say tsunami or a hurricane, right? There’s so many strong winds, there’s resistance, there’s ambiguity, unknowns. There are things that come across in your sightline. You’re like, what the heck was this? This wasn’t here three seconds ago. And so I think what’s really important with all of that noise is to actually have a really solid anchor. And this is kind of how I do my approach with almost any project that I work on and any product, because it’s staying really true to, of the why of products or kind of what direction that we’re going in. I’m going to say this all the time, you’re going to hear this all the time. But when I talk about customer problem and solution, it’s really that simple to me. And so it’s so easy with the noise to kind of get distracted. But I think what’s really important is to have that anchor of like, what are we using AI for? Or what is the goal of how we’re going to be utilizing this and helping the end user, or even our customer? And so there’s been a lot of like behavior-driven development here when it comes to how I’m thinking about product. And I kind of mentioned, sometimes there’s risk until new technological advances. I want to make sure that we battle-test almost everything that we do. And we want to prove that with data, with actual, substantial tactical proof. And that’s something that’s really important to me as I sign off on bringing any new innovations to the industry. And so lots of testing, lots of validation, and then remembering, like I said, kind of that anchor, that objective, like are we still solving the problem that our customers have, or what’s the cost of not moving forward with a product, if they don’t move forward with this? And so with AI and AI search, the problem actually is invisibility behavior, user behavior is changing. But we, but there isn’t really like kind of a glimpse into some of that behavior. And so, you know, focusing on getting more visibility into kind of what’s driving some of these high intent searches and then putting our properties or our, sorry, our clients kind of in front and meeting the renters kind of where they’re at. 

Martin: And we have talked about this a lot internally. You know, renters aren’t just searching anymore, they’re asking. And our clients want to be a part of the conversation. What are you actually seeing happening right now in AI search as it evolves day by day? 

Michael: Yeah, that’s a really good question because it’s actually changing all the time. But I will say when I talk about kind of understanding the anchor, and I mentioned this before, but AI is being used as an entry point, right? The end user is using like ChatGPT and these AI models almost as like an apartment broker. ILS and websites they’re all available to the end user. And when it comes to kind of making decisions or kind of getting advice, the end user renters, they are asking ChatGPT and these AI models for help. And so these, they have higher intent on exactly what they, what they want in their next place to live. And you know, we’re in an age where we’ve never had an invention, this is true. We’ve never had an invention that actually was smarter than a human. Now it doesn’t do all of the work, right? It’s just so when I think about AI, I almost want to like give it another brand or another name, which is like manufactured cognition. It means the same exact thing, right? But we are, what we’re doing is we’re kind of carving out a slice of what we would do normally cognitively, and we’re giving some of that to AI. And you know, and that part of it is kind of the hard part. The searching part is so hard in the renter journey, deciding where you want to live, easy, you give me everything that I want, I can decide in a snap, right? That’s not the hard part. It’s the actual searching and finding that availability. And what these AI models can do is they can actually bring forth the answer for high-intent users. That is crazy. We’ve never been in a place like that. Yes, keywords were important, but not in the specificity of a type of flooring or breed restrictions and limitations, and things like that, or location to my favorite gym, my SoulCycle class, or something. You can put all of that inside an AI model, and it will actually just part of the manufacturer’s cognition for you. And so there’s a different discovery flow here. And so, and what that’s doing is it’s actually changing some of the standard KPIs that we would see in digital marketing, like traffic and impressions and things like that. We’re actually seeing lesser volume in websites, but you’re actually getting better quality leads because it’s a lot more higher intent. We never thought that we can get a higher intent than Google searches, but here we are living in an age of AI where you’re really getting this artificial broker who’s doing all of the work, personal broker, and it’s completely being used, and that usage is growing to the general public everywhere. 

Ronn: Yeah, I love that. We all love our broker, right? For all things support, right? For not just looking for apartments. But you said something a while ago about, that stuck with me. And it is that we don’t just have one audience anymore, we have two. Do you mind breaking that down for us? 

Michael: Yeah, I love talking about this because it kind of makes a clear distinction on what is a digital strategy that now that our customers should be taking, as you’ve heard, like is SEO dead? And things like that. The real answer is anything that we’ve been doing before; none of that is really dead. We now have another, you know, someone else has just entered the chat, if that makes sense. You know, and there are two users now, which is so interesting. You know, I mentioned the broker. Think of our AI models, you know, kind of as a separate person, another broker, another marketing source in that dropdown list of marketing sources. And so traditionally with digital marketing and SEO, we’re writing content for search engines, right? Just to optimize, to be competitive. Well, I’m sure a lot of people have seen the content now should be a lot more conversational, as if it’s talking to a person. So there are two users. We have the actual person who’s going to be doing the searching, but also the AI databases, the AI audience that’s actually doing the searching for that human for their boss. And so it’s really important to, when thinking about a digital strategy, not to think of those two things. And so actually what we’re building in kind of our new products is when we’re kind of, when we’re creating something new, we actually have to ask ourselves, is this for marketing for the human or is this for feeding the AI databases? That’s going to be super important because you still want it to be readable for your actual renter, but you do want to be plain nice with your broker, schmooze them a little bit with actual information that they can actually feed into. And so the distinction also kind of is now separated, or the approach is different by experience versus structure. So the human experience, it still matters. You still want the flowery images and the colors and all of that to entice a potential renter to rent at your building. But also having very intentional, intelligently structure on the website, that’s still going to be really important for those AI models. And so, you really have to optimize for both. And so with the products that we are designing here at Apartment SEO. That is the conscious kind of objectives that we have when building our products that you may not even be able to notice when you’re looking at the specs of the actual products that we’re creating. But on the back end, all of that is completely designed. 

Martin: And this is where things evolve past just SEO. Now we’re talking SEO, GEO, AEO, I mean, trying to keep up with all these acronyms. I bet it can be a little rough for some people trying to keep up on them. Can you define, simplify the framework for operators listening right now? 

Michael: Yeah, this is, I really like kind of simplifying some of the complicated concepts, and I think this is one of the, like there’s going to be new terms coming up all the time. And so we all know SEO. I mean it is in our name, right? Search Engine Optimization. Google’s not going anywhere. Google is always going to be a big resource for, I think right now it’s like 85% of users internationally who are using Google. You don’t want to skimp on that type of a marketing source. The audience is still there. So SEO, we have that practice. Now, GEO is generative engine optimization. So this is kind of what I was mentioning. When you’re thinking about two audiences, you actually want to optimize for these AI databases to make the brand or the property, the website, more credible, more trustworthy. And so as you’re actually kind of feeding these AI databases, what that does is it starts to get a little bit more familiar with your website, with any off-page content as well too, just with the name of the property name. And that signals to those AI databases, hey, this is going to be a resource for my human boss. And it’s feeding into that more and more. What I love is that there’s kind of like this unlimited amount of data you can feed into those generative engines. And then there’s AEO, which is answer engine optimization, that is kind of optimizing to be part of the answer, the response from these AI models. So when you’re talking about GEO and these AI engines, if you see citations, these are the websites that you want to kind of optimize for. So you can, so it can actually feed the databases. Now AEO being in the answer, you want that to be, you want to be just included in the actual response that’s being fed from those citations. And so that’s going to be super important because the new user behavior now is give me the top five places that you think ChatGPT, that I should be moving at, because you know me so well, and I don’t want to really do my thinking. It takes the top 5, uses that as gospel truth. And then they’ll do their own research. Either just visiting those properties, may or may not go to those websites, but just because the AI model said, I think that these are going to be the best top choices for you, so you would want to be a part of that answer no matter what. So it’s not about 10 blue links anymore. This is about am I being mentioned? Does this broker actually like me? Do they see me as trustworthy and credible? That’s the kind of new digital practice of AEO as well too. And so what’s super important is anything SEO should not change, that importance is still exists. That is your base. The other kind of new, these new practices, it’s just a little bit more surgical, it’s a little bit more advanced, it’s more intentional. That goes on top of an SEO strategy. And once you can kind of master some of those practices and then have also a partner who’s really well-versed and very intentional about these digital strategies, then that’s going to kind of check all of the boxes when it comes to exposure to all of the different AI models and the ways that renters are searching today. 

Martin: And then how do you feel about social media and reputation and how that plays a role in kind of connecting the dots?

Michael: Great, great question there. So with social media and reputation, I mean, social media has always kind of been, you know, when that came onto the scene, a new way of marketing. And Google has loved social media. However, there wasn’t as much of an as an importance of that factor. And now in GEO, AEO with these AI models, they are now using social media as a trust signal. Because if you, let’s say that you were truly looking for a new place to live, you would, you know, if you did extra like advanced research, you would go to their social media. Does everyone do that? Maybe not really. But guess who is doing that? The AI models, because they want to be a good broker for their human boss. Right? And so it is something that is being cited there. So it’s super important to kind of treat social media not just for engagement, for that kind of social kind of value that social media brings, but also to feed those AI models. And I kind of treat reputation, actually a little bit separately from social. I actually don’t want to bucket those two together. Reputation is making the biggest comeback since Yelp was actually created, I will say. With the five-star rating actually was created because reputation is the voice of the customer. It’s a direct voice of the customer. Where else are you going to get that digitally? And so these AI models love reviews. They love reviews. And I want you to kind of take note, I did not say star ratings. That’s also, that is a different type of metric that goes into what, you know, what we call sentiment. But that is the new kind of reputation KPI that AI models love. Within that sentiment that includes star ratings, that includes the emotional tone in every single review and response that gets recorded in any of these review platforms. It is a huge, big factor when it comes to GEO and AEO. And so I can’t even stress that enough. We can have a completely separate podcast just on the importance and kind of comeback of reputation management.

Ronn: And as we should. That sounds promising. You just committed yourself.

Michael: I’ll do it. I’m more than happy to.

Ronn: Let’s go. That’s version two, ladies and gentlemen. And yeah, for the audience out there, I mean, Michael, by the way, you just, you so eloquently pointed out the difference, and I know there’s again, part of the noise is a lot of the acronyms. God knows we do not need any more acronyms in the world of PropTech, MarTech, all of the above in business overall. But thank you for that because. And not only did you highlight the definitions, but the importance of, and yeah, let’s definitely get that on the books, Martin, for, you know, the benefits of social rep. But let’s transition a little bit. What makes. I’d like to share like what makes what we’re doing different. We’re not just tracking visibility. Right. So far, we’re actually doing something about it. And I think we’re poised with exactly that to our namesake, right? Apartment SEO. What does that actually look like in practice? 

Michael: Yeah, we’ve talked about these new KPIs, what to look for, these new metric systems, and that is very important. But as you mentioned, there has to be some type of a strategy to affect that, right? We have these three layers of digital strategies now. So even if your SEO is perfect, like how our clients SEO are, then there’s still kind of the other two layers. What’s super important is and also this is not just a singular. One person can do this, or just an outside digital partner. This could and should be kind of a teamwork type of approach. I think that’s maybe a little bit different with how SEO kind of traditionally has been, where you hire an SEO agency. With GEO and AEO, there truly is a partnership here, when it comes to actually implementing certain strategies, but also having that continuous conversation as you’re measuring all of the metrics. But there are some major things that any company can do to get started. And these are not a secret, right? So first of all, you have to monitor your AI presence. That’s going to be super important. You have to know where you are in order to know where you’re going and how you kind of stack up. Another kind of important piece of that is you have to look at your data with a filter. You need context before you actually look at the data. If you look at one property in one region within one set, even one end of a neighborhood in the same city, and then you’re looking at the reports for another property at another end of that neighborhood, it’s going to be different because the competitors are different, the locale is different, the product is different of the product being the property. And so it’s really important to understand, some of this is very hyperlocal, which actually makes it more fun, in my opinion. It gets more strategic. That’s where the partnership and the conversations have to be kind of married together in order to have a successful digital strategy. But yeah, monitoring your AI presence and then working on your current assets, essentially structuring your content, whether it’s on your website or anything off-page. And some of the things that were important in SEO, like authority and any data signals, like I said, kind of backlinks and things like that’s also going to be super important. And so, but some tangible things that, that anyone can work on is making your website content conversational for the two audiences. That’s going to be super important. Marketing flowery language actually isn’t the best way to go because even though when a human reads that, is that really kind of, you know, what value is that actually bringing to them? Yes, there is a brand for the property, but actually condensing some of that language, I’m going to give everyone in the industry permission to put fewer marketing flowery language and making it more direct and conversational. This is why you actually want to live here renter. And so that can be adjusted all across the board. A second strategy that everyone can actually implement is consistency of all types of content. Not just name, address, phone number, but things like amenities. The way you talk about your floor plans, the capitalizations of words. AI is so smart that it can actually detect any inconsistencies. It can actually ingest so much data and analyze it super quickly. And so any inconsistency, it will see that kind of as a negative signal. So that’s something that a client can do today. So what we’re doing here at Apartment SEO is we’re taking all of these major principles with the filter of Multifamily. Right. With the renter in mind, our customers in mind, intent in mind, locale in mind, and we’re creating strategies that are specifically for boosting some of those metrics. When you’re measuring those KPIs for these properties and the AI visibility. We’re feeding these AI models, and we’re trying to get as much visibility for our properties that sign up with us as much as possible. 

Martin: I love that. Now, yeah, just kind of dig it in and just being able to lead the path and kind of create that framework, it’s just, you know, we’re excited to kind of see where this really plays out. And I think on top of that, the multifamily industry is really hungry about AI fluency. I think in general, I think the industry wants to learn more about AI. Sometimes they might be a little intimidated by, you know, what they can do with it or if it’s going to take over their job. What would you say is your honest take on that, and where the industry is today, and where they could be tomorrow? 

Michael: Well, I’ll start with saying we are living. I mean, I just thank God that I get to be alive in an era of AI. I really am so grateful because it’s so cool. It’s so fun. There’s so much creativity that goes with this. And, you know, you’ll hear some very prolific, some people in tech and leaders in tech that will say that AI, we haven’t had creation as important as AI since the genesis of electricity. I mean, that’s wild, right? We had things like the Internet or TikTok, the refrigerator, the microwave, those types of things that have been invented. And these technology leaders are saying nothing has actually been as important since electricity. And what does that mean? That means that AI is going to be integrated into every piece of our lives just like how electricity is. In my opinion, I feel like it’s already happening. We’re kind of in this cusp where we’re getting out of this research and wondering phase, and then there’s going to be. There’s a big group of people who are kind of in. We’re using it right now. Some of are getting even more and more advanced. So we’re kind of moving through these stages pretty quickly, I’ll say. And you know, it’s super important that when there is a behavior shift in actual like offline interactions, user behavior, the technology must follow, that’s going to be super important. And because technology, remember, they are solutions to problems. Right. And so as user behavior and expectations change, the technology has to change to kind of meet them where they’re at. And that’s what’s happening right now. And so, you know, when I get this kind of question, you know, with these new products of like, so what’s the price of this new product? And I know I want to ask them, like is the price or the cost of not actually signing up? You know, what are you really asking about? Because those two things are very different. So there is, you know, the price of the product. Yes, I understand that. What’s the cost of inaction, actually, if you don’t sign up for this? And those are really important things to think about because, and it’s not a sales message or anything like that, it is a real thing to think about because if AI is going to be coming and it’s going to take over, are you going to below the expectations that renters have or are you going to be meeting them where they’re at? That’s so important. And the most innovative kind of successful companies, they’re the ones that are going to kind of grab onto, I’m going to say even the data of like this trend is going here and then taking action on that. And that’s what we’re planning at Apartment SEO, and that’s what I’m crafting as product wise for the industry essentially. 

Ronn: So I love that you definitely have shaped the opportunity there. Right. But let’s make it real practical. What’s one thing someone listening can do this month to get more AI affluent? 

Michael: Wow, that’s a really good question. You know, I’m actually learning stuff about AI every single day. And so I could even ask myself this question. I’m always trying to learn more. But, you know, what I would say is to not just use ChatGPT, you know, with certain AI things. I think, think about what you’re doing today that might be a little bit arduous, and then think with your second brain, your manufactured cognition, right. And then think how if I had an actual partner, a co-pilot, that’s, you know, that is a living, breathing person, but they don’t have all the experience that I have, maybe they’re just a junior, you know, co-pilot. What are some things that I could give to them that they can just do while I focus on the big stuff? That type of a perspective has really helped me a lot. And I mentioned before, you know, when I’m creating these products, it’s so meta because I actually thought that about a renter. What would a renter actually, how would they engage with their co-pilot? And what they’re doing, like I said, is they’re going into ChatGPT and they’re asking about, you know, hey, look for these apartments. This is what I want. Go look for it for me. And then I’m going to do all the decisions and the critical thinking. And so AI can be used anywhere in our lives. And I think it’s to, you know, start simple first. I do have an example. There are a few cities that I would like to visit this year. New York, Chicago, Seattle. So I set up an agent in ChatGPT to search for flights every single day. And I said they have to be under $350 within 60 days. Only these airlines, you know, because of points, and only let me know if there is a flight within that meet this criteria. I would have to do that every single day, you know, and of course I’m not gonna do it. So guess what? I’m probably gonna miss some opportunities, and that’s just something that like I would like to do this year, you know, and I never thought about, no one ever told me to do that, but I actually thought about a real life problem that I had or like I wish I could do this. And then I thought about how could my helper help me? And then that’s how I thought about the prompt and that’s how I set that up. And now it’s searching every single day for me. 

Martin: Beautiful. Ronn, any final thoughts, Ronn, before we wrap it up? 

Ronn: No, I mean, I literally like, obviously, we talk a lot internally and I, but I wanted to share. I learned a lot from more of the importance. Right. It definitely reenergizes why we are making this a priority on our end. We have no choice. We are in the sea, in the tsunami as well. But we’re building our strong boat to, you know, to go through it. Michael, I think that you’re just a consummate professional. I’m so proud of you. Thank you for sharing this with our audience. Little sneak peek as to what, how we think here, right? In and around apartment SEO. I know the Multifamily podcast is not a commercial for apartment SEO, but we definitely want to highlight, you know, some of the power we have behind the scenes. And, Michael, you are definitely one of them. So thank you. 

Michael: Thank you. Yeah.

Martin: The AI tsunami is here. You either ride the wave, or you might get wiped out. 

Michael: I love that. 

Martin: This isn’t a future conversation anymore. AI isn’t coming into Multifamily. It’s already here. And I think the companies that understand how to show up, not just in Google, but inside AI, are the ones that are going to win the next decade. Michael, we really appreciate you jumping on and breaking this down for everybody in the audience. If you are listening and you want to understand where you stand across SEO, GEO, or AI visibility, check out apartmentseo.com, and we can set up a demo and kind of show you where you’re at today and see how visible or invisible you might be, and really give you the roadmap to get you there. And if this podcast brought you value, please share it with somebody else in the Multifamily industry. Until next time. Bye, everyone. Bye, Michael. Bye, Ronn. 

Michael: Bye. Thanks, guys. 

Ronn: Bye, guys.