Hosts: Ronn Ruiz and Martin Canchola, Co-Founders of Apartment SEO

Guests: John Carlson, Chief Executive Officer (CEO) and Alison Russell, Director of Consulting & Communications of Mark-Taylor Companies

Martin: Welcome to The Multifamily Podcast, Powered by Apartment SEO, with Ronn and Martin. And on today’s show, we’re going to be exploring the intersection of innovation, leadership, and community building within the apartment industry. Today, we are very honored to be joined by two incredible leaders from Mark-Taylor Companies, a powerhouse in Multi-family development and property management in the Arizona and Nevada areas. First, we have John Carlson, Chief Executive Officer of Mark Taylor, whose 20-plus-year journey from Community Manager to CEO is inspiring for anyone in our industry. Alongside him is Allison Russell, Director of consulting and communications, who’s helping usher in a new era for Mark-Taylor with the launch of their new consulting division, bringing strategic insights and tech innovation to clients across the Southwest. John and Allison, welcome to the multifamily podcast.

John: Thanks for having us. 

Allison: Thanks for having us. 

John: Great to be here. 

Ronn: Yes. Thank you guys so much for joining us today. I’m really excited about this one in particular, because you guys have an amazing story as a company and individually as well. So John, we’re gonna start with you, and I really want to, I want to know, but I also want the audience to know. Your race through the ranks is obviously a master class in career growth for a lot of people, right? You’re such an inspiration. What were some of the pivotal moments that helped you, and don’t start, don’t shake, but what were the pivotal moments that helped shape your path from Community Manager to CEO?

John: You know, I think a lot of it has to do with grit. It’s one of my favorite books of all time. It’s back here, actually, Angela Duckworth book. I think that journey was a lot about growing up in life. It wasn’t just about Multifamily or just about Mark-Taylor. It was trying to figure out my own pathway. I think I’d have to be remiss if I didn’t credit a lot of mentorships within Mark-Taylor, and then also the industry. I think what folks oftentimes underappreciate about this sector and Multifamily and Ronn, I’ve known you, you know, probably 20 years, is just how much people are willing to support you, regardless of role or vendor, operator, owner, doesn’t matter. So, when you’re at a conference, whether it’s a national conference, local conference, I just feel like there’s a lot of people willing to support each other and give back in terms of mentorship support. Hey, here’s how I see it. This is what happened to me. Think about this, when you’re going through this pathway in your journey, and I think that ties to a lot of, you know, different engagements, mentorships, relationships, specifically early on, when I was trying to just get my druthers and figure things out. I think you know, being at the management side of the business, and understanding, you know, what it takes to lead a team at the site level, and then being a regional understanding how residents respond to certain, you know methods, communication, templates, all those things just really helped grow my career. And I think when I became president in 16, it was eye-opening to me as I started to really dig in with other CEOs and presidents, you know, how difficult it was. It’s lonely at the top, I’ll say it that way, but to understand how to see around the corners and really go from, you know, operator to visionary. And that’s a significant shift, which we can talk about later. But I just think the people around me, I give a lot of credit to, and those relationships and connectivity to help me grow as an individual.

Ronn: I often say that around here, too, it’s lonely at the top. We gotta support each other. 

John: That’s right. That’s right.

Martin: I mean, but your ground-up perspective, you know, you started, you know, obviously at the community manager level, and then working your way up, you really have a perspective from all points of view. And being able to bring that to the forefront now is probably, you know, vital in your position now. So, for those just starting out in the Multifamily industry or aiming for leadership, what values or habits do you think were essential for your success?

John: You know, I think for me, it’s work ethic. So that was instilled early from my both my mother and stepfather. Stepfather was a workaholic, so I learned a lot of, you know, good and bad things from that, but really helped translate into my future state. I think having grit, being relentless, being curious, asking a lot of questions, all those things translate. And then, as I follow our principles within Mark-Taylor, one that is my favorite, is being better than yesterday. So, I just really, I think as much as I focus on that today, maybe it was a bit more bully when I was younger, but certainly it was something that I just did from an instinctual pattern type process. So, when I look at myself, you know, yesterday, last week, last month, last year, last decade, I see growth, and I’m not really trying to compare myself to others. I used to compare myself to other management companies, other development companies, and I think today we really focus with a day one mindset. So, if you’ve ever read the Jeff Bezos letters from back in the day when he was CEO, his quarterly letters, he talks a lot about being day one. That means being innovative, being curious, being relentless in your pursuit to grow and build a culture. Day two is really stasis, where you start to kind of, you know, big companies start to get bloated, and they’re not as nimble. So, I think from a leadership perspective, I think about being nimble. I think about ensuring that our culture is strong. And I think when you do that, when you shape your culture in terms of that mindset being better than yesterday, focusing on the right things, and really creating an environment where you can create purpose for individuals. I’m confident, and I won’t speak for Allie, but I’m confident Allie thinks of her career within Mark-Taylor’s lens with purpose, and it allows her to really dig in and create personal satisfaction. And again, I’m speaking for you, Allie, but the more people that you can get to connect to your organization with purpose, man, that becomes the flywheel effect, in my opinion, and you start to really transform your organization, both internally then externally, from just a visual, visionary, oh, what’s this company doing? They’re doing a lot of great things because a lot of people are talking so positively about the organization, both internally and externally, and that flywheel effect just takes off exponentially. 

Ronn: It’s amazing. I definitely am writing down some books that I need to add to my collection. Thank you. But no, you sell it. You say it so eloquently. Allison, let’s hear from you now. Your background obviously spans from consulting, communications, project management, leadership. What drew you in? This is probably a golden age question for multifamily people, right? What drew you into multifamily, and how did that evolve into leading an entire consulting vision at Mark Taylor?

Allison: Yeah, so back in 2021, I was moving from Maryland to Arizona for my husband’s job, and we were just simply looking for a home. So, I started out like any other resident, and really fell into the opportunity of Multifamily and finding Mark-Taylor, and I think that that’s the biggest thing that I’ve seen. There’s so much opportunity and so much growth and innovation as well, and it’s been such an inspiring industry to work in. I’m so glad I really stumbled in it. I have a background in corporate communications as well as project management, which allows me those fundamentals to know how to create strategy and structure and how to scale that, and I’ve seen it in different industries at different levels, and being at Mark Taylor and learning the industry and learning our unique way of doing things, it’s allowed me to adapt some of those strategies to our audiences and find a lot of success. And you know, those results are very motivating. And you know, similar to the opportunity I saw in the Multifamily industry, we saw a lot of opportunity as an organization to share our knowledge that we’ve built for the past 40 years as a company. So that’s where consulting came from, and we’re also getting inquiries from clients, you know, wanting us to help them with more beyond property management. So, where we’ve really focused in and seen that opportunity is marketing and leasing with a service called tenant source, which I’ll kind of expand on later, but just that similar opportunity-focused mindset has really brought me here.

Ronn: That’s amazing. 

Martin: So, you’ve also become a role model for women in real estate. What advice would you share with women looking to lead in the space as well?

Allison: Thank you. So, I have been really fortunate to have innovation and new ideas embraced, I think because the culture fits with at Mark-Taylor and in the industry, fits with my mindset as well. It’s allowed me to grow and have that success. I think that if you’re willing to bring new ideas to the table and notice opportunity and seize it, that’s really going to help you out. I always say to my team, I like to be a problem solver, and I like to surround myself with problem solvers instead of just problem finders. So, everyone can identify a problem, but not everyone can find the solution, and not everyone can have the resilience to find the right solution, because you’re not going to get it perfect on the first time. And to be able to have that grit. I’ll use John’s words to be able to follow through and be solution-focused. That’s where you get that uniqueness. And I think man, woman, whoever you will be recognized for that.

Ronn: It’s such a huge statement about resilience to find the true solution and purpose. That is insane, because in and around the world of digital marketing for us, or marketing tech, you know, prop tech, that’s exactly it. Like, you know, as we find solutions, the next best thing is right in front of us. We got to keep going in that resilience. 

Allison: There’s always more. 

Ronn: There’s always more, right? Yeah, thank you. And speaking of innovation, I wanted to ask John, the pace of innovation, obviously, as you know, is growing in multifamily from centralized leasing, AI, famous topic now. Automation obviously, crazy hot topics. I know Mark-Taylor is at the forefront of them. But how do your communities embrace this technology? It’s like drinking from a fire hydrant sometimes, right?

John: Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, that’s where, you know, Allie and her communication team does a really nice job of kind of gas break. And I think because we move so fast and innovation is a big piece of our DNA that we just want to, you know, we want to go. So, I often times, will tell the board that I’m like a 10 on that speed scale, like I just want to, I want to sprint. Dustin Lacey, our CTO, same way. Michael Wilson, our CEO, he’s got to be a bit more break like, hey, hang on. We got to make sure that our teams thoroughly understand what’s happening here. And you know, we’ve had challenges in the past where we’ve gone too fast, and that usually leads to a disconnect, lack of understanding, lack of follow through, and you’re just kind of fumbling through and not creating a five-star journey for your employees and your residents, of course, if they’re not connected with what you’re trying to introduce. So, I think from a innovation standardization process, we really think about, you know, the how does the experience for residents improves if we’re innovating. So essentially, if you know, we get presented with a software package, software tech, new tech, which happens all the time in this space, specifically after 2020. I feel like we have to understand, like very first principal question, does it enhance our customer experience? And if it doesn’t, it’s irrelevant, like we don’t even bring it to the table. So, knowing how much this sector has accelerated since the pandemic, you really have to be careful with that process. So, we’ve strategically focused a lot on our centralization platform through our ion, we call it integration operation network, and understanding how we can really take the traditional model and create a significant amount of more efficiencies for the operator, and then benefit the resident, of course, as an output, and also benefit the client. So, we’re really thinking of innovation through employees, residents, and ownership groups. If the boxes are yes, yes, yes, as we introduce something, it’s a pretty easy move, and then we are tasked with really explaining the why behind it and creating the communication tracks that Alile and team do so eloquently to ensure that there’s buy-in.

Martin: Yeah, I love that you think in first principles as well, too. Kind of keeping that mindset and kind of thinking about problems and kind of thinking about them like that, and how to solve that. But when it comes to challenges or lessons, what have you encountered when implementing any kind of new tech, whether it be centralized leasing across multiple properties? Do you have a specific lesson or challenge you might be able to share?

John: Yeah, I mean two things. One, I think we sometimes underestimate the power of the traditional model, right? Because that’s just what most of us have always known. And I’ve really tried to focus on removing myself from this is how we’ve always done things. A piece of that was in the early 2020s, with our doors locked, we basically assessed our entire platform. Like what do we have to continue to keep doing at the site level? What can we remove? And by removing doesn’t mean we’re negatively impacting both the employee and resident experience. But what could be done offline or centralized? Easy one is obviously bookkeeping. There’s no reason with technology, where it’s at today, that we have to do a move-in, move-out at the site level or do a balance review. So, you know, all these things we really looked at specifically to understand best practices. And then I think in understanding that really bringing in folks that also think about our sector with a new lens, like you know, breath of fresh air, like they might be ultra talented A players, as retasting will refer to them, bring in more A players. That’s the best thing you can do for current employees, and I think we’ve done a nice job with that. Allie is a perfect example. She doesn’t have property management experience, but she understands from a, I’ll say a hyper, like high potential nine box person, like I can drive business this way. I can enhance this sector with doing this thing, ABC. So, I just really think being innovative, thinking differently, thinking, you know, I hate to say outside the box, but it’s true. And if you use the Charlie Munger line when you follow the herd, it’s the fastest regression to the mean. So, us doing things differently purposely to ensure that we have differentiation over the next 5,10 years. And I think that will prove itself out over time. And today, we have, I think now, up to 20 properties on our pod systems through centralization, with more to come the rest of the year. You know, that’s how we’re going to transform what we do on a day-to-day basis. And I think the last piece of it is just, you know, to do all these things, you have to have buy in and thoughtfulness around your communication. So, making sure that everyone understands what you’re trying to do. Don’t just say, hey, here’s what it is, now go do it. Get buy-in, right? Get support. Help build this thing collectively. So, we have feedback loops from service managers, allies, communication with Communication Council, sorry, that’s what it’s called. So, on the Communication Council, getting aspect, different aspects, from all these different fields within the workforce matters so that they help us drive better decision making and thoroughness with our communications and buy-in over time.

Martin: Yeah, you got to stay contrarian and think different from the crowd.

John: That’s right, that’s right. 

Ronn: It’s amazing. So Allison, on the consulting side, how are you helping navigate the shift towards technology? And what I want to know is, what are some of the most in demand tools that you’re advising on now?

Allison: So, we have a unique perspective, and that we have about 130 communities that we currently manage, whether it’s owned or third party, and so we’ve really trialed and refined a lot of these technologies and processes in house on our own communities, like John mentioned the pause and everything we started with the Mark-Taylor owned, and now we’re expanding from there. So, we have a great setup to see what works and be able to navigate this sort of confusing environment where all these technologies are out there and it feels overwhelming. So, we have the tried-and-true methods that we’ve tested on our own properties, so we help clients really get there through navigating through the storm. I would definitely say our most in demand is our tenant source service, which I had mentioned a little bit earlier. So, I’ll explain what that is. It’s pretty much exactly what it sounds. We’re sourcing tenants for properties. So, everything from lead generation to tour, whether it’s targeted advertising and marketing to using a centralized CRM to using our AI powered leasing consultant and then having our centralized concierge is actually answer those phone calls. So, it’s the whole package, and it takes you all the way to tour. So, if you’re an owner operator or even a property manager, if you want the entire front end taken care of, that’s what tenant source does, so that you can focus on managing your community. So, I think that in this space, there is a need for more strategic marketing and advertising specifically. And there is a shift, or there’s everyone wants to shift towards centralization in terms of leasing, but not everybody knows how. So, we kind of present it in this whole funnel type platform, and that’s what clients are most interested in today I would say.

Ronn: Would you say some of this was done, or did it catapult you guys because of COVID, or were you already on this trajectory?

Allison: I know that this is a little bit before my time, but I know that they were on this trajectory, and it absolutely accelerated everything because of COVID. I think you could say the same for almost every industry. There are certain things that change that won’t go back. There’s that instant gratification that consumers are so used to having, whether it’s food delivery, online shopping, scheduling an appointment, everything. So, I think that everyone has had to shift, and those who aren’t shifting are feeling the pain of that, and you’ll see the competitiveness drop if you aren’t evolving to that.

Ronn: Yeah, no, brilliant. You guys are definitely the leaders in this space. 

Martin: And I think we still see kind of like three different types of residents, where we have the one where it’s like, okay, I want to be the full tech stack, go through the full virtual experience, and then you have some that are maybe a hybrid, and then some that are, okay, I just want to go through the normal process of like, you know, touring the apartment, working with a human, right. So as long as you can cover all fronts, then, you know, you’re golden. So Allison, do you think tech like augmented reality, virtual reality and artificial intelligence are simply helpful tools, or do you see them actually fundamentally changing the leasing experience in the next few years?

Allison: I do see them fundamentally changing the leasing experience in the next few years. I think it’s happening now too. Of course, AR and VR that too. But I think the biggest fight is AI, because it can be integrated into every part of your business and operation in some way. And I think there’s you had commented before, there’s this balance between the human element and AI that still exists. The human element, especially in things like housing, is very important, but what we are applying it to is the things that don’t need that and that can be more efficient with it. So, I’ll give you an example of that with the AI leasing consultant and tenant source. It’s 100% call answer rate. It’s 24/7. Now previously, you have you didn’t have people answering overnight, you didn’t have people answering at all times. So, it’s an augment onto the human element, and then we still have a live Concierge Team that’s answering the phone, because you’re going to have people who just want to talk to a human admittedly, sometimes I’m that person who will say, you know, let me speak to an associate. It depends on the severity of situation. I think it’s also a generational thing, as you had pointed out, and we want to be versatile into serving the consumers, you know, very strategically for the audience. So, I think you have to have AI if you’re going to serve the younger audience, who is just so much more adapted to technology at this point. But you also have to keep that human element that is at the heart of what we do, and that’s finding people at home, so they want to feel as if they’re supported.

Ronn: And I think in many, I mean, this is a great case inquiry. In many regards, you guys are giving them the consumer and your prospective resident, a lot more of you. You know, you look at the demands of the traditional on site, and if it was still that same old, quote, unquote, old school way where you have to wait for the bookkeeper to have access, you know, time the manager, right? You’re just so limiting that customer experience. And so, I think while implementing technology, you’re able to give a lot more of that in person support, right? In theory.

Allison: Absolutely. 

Ronn: Yeah, that’s brilliant. So obviously, launching a consulting division within an already established, what, 40-year-old company. What sparked the idea? What services do you currently offer within?

Allison: It’s a broad array of everything that we do in property management. So, we can give advisory services. Of course, there are people who want our help through the pre development process with our new business team and our operations team, and that’s because that asset life cycle starts way before property management comes. So, there are those few years where we can really help out early in the cycle and give our advice, so that you’re set up for a great property management situation. So, we kind of advise throughout the asset life cycle, but we have found repeatedly that people want to know more about the marketing, they want to know more about the advertising. That’s kind of a puzzle that a lot of people haven’t cracked yet, because you have people spending thousands and thousands of dollars in ad spend for these leads, and they don’t really, necessarily fully understand, sometimes, what it’s being used for. And then on top of that, they’re not answering the phone when those thousands of dollars of leads are calling, so then that is lost. So, I think that that has been the biggest inefficiency that we’ve seen other places. And there’s a lot of interest in how we can better that, how you can get ILS independent, things like that, that Mark-Taylor has achieved, but we really have a wide array of knowledge that we’re now sort of opening our doors for to share. And I have gotten some really good feedback in that everyone wants to know, like how Mark-Taylor does it or like, how do you have this reputation? And we’re sharing a lot more of those secrets now, which has been really fun.

Ronn: Your use cases must be amazing. And I’m here celebrating and cheering you go on to the back end saying, yes, preach about the leads. 

Allison: Yes.

Ronn: We don’t have a lead issue, in my opinion, right? So, yeah.

Martin: I think the favorite term that she used was ILS independence. 

Ronn: I love that too. I caught that.

Martin: Right. So that’s key messaging, right? 

Allison: That’s the one that everyone’s interested in. 

Martin: So, what’s been the feedback so far, Allison? And how do you see the consulting arm evolving over the next few years and really making Mark-Taylor a powerhouse in our industry?

Allison: It’s been great. And I think that that focus that I spoke about, about tenant source and the marketing and the advertising, that’s really the hook that everyone wants to know about. They want to know how we’re ILS independent. They want to know how we’re answering all these leads, how we’re finding the right people. And that’s something that I’ve focused a lot of my attention now is growing that arm, because it’s something that we’re not just in the Southwest for, that we’ve actually served in states across the nation, and it really opens those doors to others, because, you know, you have people in the East Coast, in the Midwest that they’re experiencing the same problem, where they’re overspending on marketing and advertising, and they’re letting the big giants like apartments.com and others really, you know, manned that strategy, instead of taking ownership of that strategy themselves and learning how to use their money more efficiently.

Ronn: Oops, I was on mute there. So now back to John. Obviously, Barcelo is more than just a management company. You’re also a developer entering into new markets. What are the biggest hurdles when it comes to entering new territories?

John: Yeah, I’d say we, you know, we’ve strategically focused only on Phoenix and Las Vegas, really. Las Vegas, we launched in June of 2010 through a relationship. And I’d say that endeavoring in a pathway of growth in that markets been slower than maybe we wanted to see, but that’s also okay, because we really wanted to make sure that we understood the market before being more aggressive with our new business processes, and then obviously being in Phoenix, our backyard, really ensuring that we’re maximizing the amount of class A third party in the space on top of the projects we manage and own. So, I think, you know, again, we Zig when others zag. We’ve been asked to go into multiple markets many times. So, if you look at our existing stack of clients, you know, institutional clients spent life. JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, go down the list into mom and pops. There’s about 21,000 units in other states that we could go manage today. Okay, come manage for us, we love what you do in Arizona. We’ve strategically said no, because we really want to make sure that we’re keeping the level of service at a five star within these two markets. And we all know how difficult that is. And I see other groups try to expand and grow, and there’s groups that you know grow almost our size of our entire organization in one year. So, I think it’s difficult to maintain scale at the right pace if you’re going to ensure that the quality doesn’t get diluted. And that’s something that’s really important to us. It’s not profit first. It’s people first. It’s residents first, and ensuring that five star remains in place really only allows us to be in this these two markets, in my opinion. So, unless there’s a black swan event in Arizona and Nevada, we will not initiate our plan B strategy for 2030, beyond which would be other states that we’ve identified. But for now, it’s Nevada and Arizona.

Ronn: That’s that whole break gas, break analogy, right? 

John: That’s exactly right. That’s exactly right. 

Ronn: What you asked for.

Martin: So, and when you and if you were say, to expand to another region, how would you keep that Mark-Taylor standard, your branding consistent? You know, this way, no matter if they have a Mark-Taylor property in one area or another, it’s all the same type of experience for the for the end user.

John: Well, it goes back to having clear understanding of our vision or our mission and our principles and abiding by those. So, it would have to be a group of really, I’ll say, purpose-built leadership individuals within our organization that could go, kind of transplant the life of Mark-Taylor into another market. It’s difficult. We attempted to do this in 2010 in Washington and Oregon. We failed. And I think experimenting in failure matter, and we learned a lot of things from that. And one thing was, you know, doing that’s really difficult. So, if you’re going to go launch a new market, you better be ready. You better be prepared. And a lot of it falls back on the people, the leadership teams, and how they orchestrate that. So, I think for us, expansion for us, is within these two markets, and it will continue to be that way.

Ronn: That’s brilliant, John, obviously, personally, you’re known for, you’re in the industry as one of the best dressed guys in Multifamily. but your company is well known for cultivating more than just housing. You guys clearly build community. What are some of the key ways you’re engaging residents and working with nonprofits to create that impact?

John: Well, a couple things, I think, through our inspire program, which we launched a few years ago. It’s really about giving back to our employees in the community. Along with that launch, we identified what we call VTO, so volunteer time off. Everyone gets eight hours with the entire company. You can take eight hours to go support any nonprofit that you want and get a full day off of work you want to do it one day or break it up, what have you. So, we said, hey, what’s the best way to really give back to the community and create those connected bonds. We said let’s do it through, homelessness, which fits our profile. Let’s do it through hunger, we want no one to be hungry. And then military, right? So, veterans alike, how do we support those three buckets? And really, we have an aspirational goal. So, our 2030 goal is to give 10,000 hours a year back to our communities. So last year, I think we hit just under 2400, so we’re kind of ahead of the pace in terms of that for 2030 and I just see this evolving and expanding. And I think it also allows our residents during these events or give backs, they can support the Inspire program and get connected with our communities, with our team members. And I think it creates a fabric of community across you know, whether you’re a Mark-Taylor resident or Mark-Taylor employee, doesn’t really matter. We’re giving back to our community, and I think that’s a framework we want to continue to double down on over time. 

Ronn: That’s awesome. Do you guys involve your residents too in that, like, if they want to participate? 

John: Yes, certain events, absolutely, especially in the holiday season, will one sure they’re part of the give back programs and Toys for Tots. Whatever we’re doing at that time, we’ll engage each community to support those different give back opportunities.

Ronn: That’s awesome. That’s a great way to amplify your efforts. Right? 

John: Absolutely.

Ronn: Something similar, we just did one on our 12th anniversary was last Thursday.

John: Congratulations. 

Ronn: Thank you. As in, our senior leadership team got together. The rest of the country got, you know, did individually, or some of them that are in together. And I have to say, this is one that I participated with my group. Whereas, you know, I use, I do stuff a lot individually, and just that team effort that you have, you know. There was times where I was joking with people and saying, would you rather be back at the office, you know? And just that camaraderie that you build, it was amazing. So, thank you for sharing your story and that we got to keep going.

Martin: And that was an awesome time. Like we had so much fun, which is talking with people within the community tha I don’t know they go there too to, you know, engage with other people as well. And so, we had so many laughs, so much fun. I mean, the time flew by. Went by really quick, but it was actually a good time, filled with some good memories, and definitely something that, yeah, we need to expand more on. And I can only imagine getting the residents involved too, and making them be a part of it would make, feel pretty special for them too.

John: Yeah, this Wednesday, I think we have a goal of 100 employees for Feed My Starving Children event all in the afternoon, so we’ll be there in our blue T shirts and packing boxes and supporting the starving children initiative. 

Martin: Beautiful. Love it.

Ronn: Awesome. So, Allison from a consultant and communications lens, what does it take to deliver a great experience today? I chuckle, because then sell over, right? When scaled across so many units, how do you target each person? 

 

Allison: Yeah, there’s many different ways. I’ll give you three that I feel really passionate about. So, communicating with clarity is something that sounds very simple, but there’s such a communications volume coming in from all angles, same with employees, residents, clients alike. So, if you’re a resident, you want clear, just easy to understand information coming in from your property management team, and you want it you know, to inform, engage, or whatever you’re looking for, but the call to action and the clarity should be there. Secondly, proactivity. So, there’s nothing like say you’re trying to drive out of your community and they’re repaving something, and nobody told you situations like that we avoid. So, we try and be extremely proactive. We want to respect people’s time and respect that they have responsibilities, jobs, lives. So, we try and be really proactive with our communication and then consistency. So, you want to know that you’re being supported as a resident and that you’re hearing consistently from, yeah, from your property management company. So, I think that Mark-Taylor does a really great job of just having a consistent presence and creating that community. In fact, one of the things I love about it is people say, oh, I live in a Mark-Taylor instead of I live at San Artis, which is something I have never seen or heard of before, you know, moving here and enjoying the company. So, I think those items are a great place to start, clarity, proactivity and consistency.

Ronn: Yeah, from a branding lens, you guys, I would definitely say I live in a marketing property versus…

Martin: Yeah, definitely gonna be a part of the marketing. Yeah, really brandable. All right, so last one, Allison, for you in this segment, how does internal communication and team alignment play into the bigger picture of resident’s satisfaction?

Allison: I love this question, because I have such a background in internal communication, but it’s really that glue behind the scenes that’s holding everything together that no one really sees or notices unless you know a lot about it. So, when you think about internal communication, you have to have everyone moving in the same direction, understanding the goals if you’re going to be nimble, as John had said. And understanding what they need to do to get there, especially when there’s so much change with today, the AI and all the technology that we’re using, everyone needs to be up to date, on the same page, and they need to understand why we’re changing and where it’s going to take us, and ultimately how it’s going to benefit them. So, when you’re thinking of you know, how does this organization, as we grow, move in one direction? Really, internal communications is amplifying that and helping that. When you have great leaders like John and others, it can take their voice and spread it across the entire company and allow them to interact with people and have that two-way communication, where they’re getting feedback, they have those feedback loops, and they are really in tune with what the people of the organization want. So, it not only does it help you accomplish your organizational goals, it helps to stay people first and listen to others.

Ronn: That is huge. How to amplify John’s voice for sure, around the whole company, right? 

Allison: Yes.

Ronn: Because not every privilege to just be in that one meeting, right? And what follows from there on.

Allison: Yeah, we want them to feel like and it’s true, we want them to feel like they’re being heard and like he knows and appreciates them, and I think he’s a great leader in terms of doing that, but you need to utilize internal communications and technology to make sure that that is consistent.

Ronn: Absolutely. So, you guys, we’re in segment five of six. I’m super excited about this particular segment. Thank you so much for so, you know, giving your info so much, so far. This is our rapid-fire round, and it’s kind of fun. We’re gonna say the first thing that comes to mind, either of you can speak and or both of you, we have about five questions. So, my first one is, what’s your favorite resident event you’ve been, you’ve seen or been part of?

Allison: I’ll take that one, anything with a charity kickback or pets, and not a lot of ours have both.

Ronn: Nice.

John: I’m going to go back in time to our Summer of Love Series, when we had Roberta as our kind of focal model, in terms of that 6070s like Summer of Love Party thing, and it was kind of the first time we ever did anything programmatically. So, I give Kim Atkinson, our Director of Marketing, high praise at that time. And it was really cool to see residents kind of move around the valley and follow our pool party series from property to property. It really became kind of an iconic moment for us back in the you know, two thousand, early two thousand.

Ronn: I think I remember hearing about that actually. I was like…

John: You were invited? 

Ronn: I’m California, so I’m like, palms get going with…

John: Phoenix right there.

Ronn: Okay, most exciting emerging tech in multifamily.

John: I would say interesting, Steve Winsby steel. So, he’s helping build, I think the first hologram type product, which you’ll use in leasing. So interesting to see, you know, how that rolls out. And I think just overall, you know, this sector is now exposed to technology like it never has been pre pandemic. And I think the next five years will feel like 50 in terms of technology and how we grow as a sector.

Ronn: 100% Yeah, we are on to something really good, often. Okay, if you work in Multifamily, what would you be doing?

Allison: I love to read and I love coffee, so I’m gonna say I would own a coffee shop, bookstore. That’s what I’d be doing.

Ronn: Nice, John, you want to go?

John: I think, you know, I individually, I’ll reach out or connect with young leaders or, you know, I’ll say kids. I say kids that are in their 20s just trying to figure out life. And I feel like I’m a good sounding board in terms of all the mistakes I’ve made over the years, and which just means experience. And I think what recharges me is just seeing them grow and coming back to me saying, oh, thank you so much for participating in my journey at this time. And you know, I’m excited about these kids growing, and I just do it individually. It’s not a paid for service. So maybe if I wasn’t doing this, I’d start my own, I don’t know, mentorship, coaching arm, which would be fun for me. 

Ronn: That would be totally fun. Okay, book or podcast that has shaped your leadership.

Allison: So, I personally love the Mel Robbins podcast. I think it gives me so many good takeaways and nuggets for just personal and professional. I love that you can really take her tips and sort of run with them, whether you’re a small business owner or you’re trying to do something at work. And I just love her. And then I actually have, I do love the book grit, so I’m going to steal that from John as well. I think it’s just an overall great quality. I think if you have grit, you can almost figure out anything to an extent, you can always figure out your path.

Ronn: Tenacious. Yeah.

John: Grit is right there. you follow David Goggins journey. He is grit. So, I take that as the book podcast. I was just turned on to this a few months ago. I would say it’s David Center’s podcast founders. So, he essentially has a goal to read over thousand autobiographies, you know, in short order. I think he’s on 421 or 424 episodes. So, it helps me connect with leaders. And he does a lot of leaders from early 20th century, a lot of leaders that have you know, passed away. And it just gives me a lot of perspective in terms of how these different leaders over time, these iconic leaders, Carnegie Ford, you good on the list. It’s just remarkable. Their stories and what you know, what people actually inspired them prior to them becoming who they were, or what we know them to be. So, I love Isadora sharp, the founder of four seasons. So, I’m going to read a little bit more on him. Post David centers, but his ability to just emphasize great ideas and great humans into what he wanted to do for four seasons was just remarkable. So, David Sandra founders.

Ronn: Love that. I’m writing this down too, as we’re talking. Okay, final question in this segment, one word to describe Mark Taylor. 

Allison: I’m gonna be a little cheesy and brand focused and say home, I think that it’s true that, you know, to remember that you’re providing a home for people, and when you have those interactions where you see that purpose is really impactful. And I love that. I feel like it keeps me fulfilled. I feel like our residents actually feel like they’re at home just based upon our service and how they describe it to us, and then I feel like our employee culture is that way as well. People are really embraced for them, and it’s like the whole person, you know, they’re people want to know about your family and your personal life and your goals and all those things. So, I would say home.

John: Yeah, home is an easy one for me, it’s in our vision and mission statements. I’ll add infinite. So, one of another influencers of mine, ours as an organization, is Simon Sinek, the infinite game. So, we just celebrated our 40th year anniversary this year. So, kudos to Jeff mark, Scott Taylor, our founders, 40 years ago, putting this thing together. But we really think about, you know, what’s Mark-Taylor look like, 50, 60, 70, years from now, in building in that capacity, ignoring kind of those short-term knee jerk like, let’s do this now to maybe create some more profit or shortcut some things. No, no, we want to do it the right way. Thinking about this long term. Will it benefit us if we do this today, in 5 years, 10 years, 15 years? And I think it’s the right mindset if you do want to be infinite in your journey. So, I’d say infinite for us.

Ronn: Brilliant. I love it. You guys have done a great job, by the way, in carrying on the legacy for 40 years. That’s amazing. That story, wow. Okay, final segment, looking ahead, what excites you most about the future of Multifamily over the next 5 to 10 years? You said infinite earlier, but let’s take it down to 5 to 10 years.

John: Allie, you want me to go first? 

Allison: Sure.

John: I would say disruption. I think we are in the most disruptive space or time in this industry’s history, I think you’ll see more things happen in the next 5 years than we’ve seen in the last 50 in total, if not more. I feel like traditional operations will no longer exist, at least in terms of large populations, bigger areas across the country. I think technology will continue to influence us dramatically. And I think if you’re an early adopter, this will benefit you. If you kind of just, you know, get behind the pathway or tailwind of groups that are doing it the right way, that’s fine, too. If you’re a late adopter, that could be problematic for you and your business long term. So I think, you know, this will not only, I’ll say it will not only transform kind of how people look at our sector, both from an employee status, but also just from a, you know, I’ll say professionalism, technology driven infrastructure, but also, I think residents are going to have even better experiences, things that we can’t even describe today, being omni channel, omnipresent. Think Amazon 24/7 I mean, if a resident wants a question answered at 1am, we should be able to answer it at 1:01am.

Ronn: Absolutely.

Allison: Yeah, similar to John there. I think the fact that we’re at such a pivotal moment in Multifamily. Specifically, it feels really exciting to be here. I know that some may think it’s scary because of the change, but I think it’s really exciting because I do think it’s going to look very different in 5 to 10 years. So, you know, from what I’ve gathered being here, it’s been the traditional leasing model for a long time, and there has been innovation, but largely in the industry. It’s been rooted in that traditional model where, you know, people are at their community, and residents interact face to face with everyone, and there’s not that optionality that exists today, and I am just really excited to see that change, and I think that for people, there’s going to be more opportunity in different angles, and I think it’s great for those who can see that and kind of jump on that opportunity, as I’ve spoken about. But I’m just really excited to see what is ahead, and I think we have a pretty good vision for what that’s going to look like. But as a whole, as an industry, there are so many things that you can’t quite predict. So, I think that the change is really going to be exciting.

Martin: Yeah, change is inevitable, right? It’s definitely going to happen. And finally, if you could give one piece of advice to a property manager or marketing director listening today, what would it be? 

John: For me, it would be first become an expert in your role, and then expand upon that and understanding the business as a whole. Meaning, if you’re on admin, learn the service side vice versa, become an expert in your space network. Relentlessly think you know seven rules of power. Really find ways, as I tell every new hire group every other week, find your pathway into other silos, meaning, get out of your own silo. Don’t just talk to the four people on your own community team. Talk to others. Find different mentors. Reach out across your industry, your associations. Really build your network, build your brand, build your journey. And I think a lot of great things will happen, because a lot of people don’t focus on those things. And I think when you network relentlessly and you build your brand, lots of great things happen. So, I think if you’re aspiring to go above and beyond, a marketing director or property manager. Those are things that are must haves. But I’d end with just aiming up. So that’s the Jordan Peterson, which is tied to our be better than yesterday principle, which is my favorite. Aim up, man. Just push yourself to get better a little bit every day. Don’t compare yourself to others. Comparison is the thief of joy. Compare yourself to yesterday, and just build upon that. And I think over time, you look back and say, Holy hell, did I really grow as a person, leader, coworker, whatever that pathway is.

Martin: Beautiful.

John: Game up.

Allison: Yeah. Also similar to that, I would say that you’re never a finished product, and I like to look at that with everything. So, whether it’s our communication structure, I always ask my team, okay, we have this newsletter. It’s performing really well. That’s great, but before it drops, we need to evolve it. It’s never a finished product, because things are always changing with society, with the audiences, and same goes for yourself. You may it feel like an expert in one area, but continue to build that in other areas and just forever, keep growing. And I think that if you have someone, for example, like far along in their career, like John, who’s still learning and still willing to hear new ideas, it just makes it that much better that you’re not rooted in the same things, and I think that if you’re just a forever learner, it will only benefit you and everyone else around you.

Martin: Wonderful. Ronn, do you have any final thoughts before we get ready to wrap this up? 

Ronn: No, I just keep smiling. I’m doing thumbs up here virtually. I mean, you guys are such an inspiration, individually and together. Just thank you for your time. I really appreciate it, and I’m excited for the audience, once this goes live.

Martin: John or Allison, any final thoughts before we wrap up the podcast?

John: Grateful to participate, and I thank you guys for allowing us to be on your podcast, and kudos to you guys and what you’ve done. And excited to hear the podcast and also learn from others as you guys continue to grow this. So, kudos to you. Thanks for having us.

Allison: Yeah, thanks as well. That’s been a really great conversation. So grateful for you having us on.

Martin: Cool. So, John Allison, thank you both so much for sharing your time, insights and stories with us today. What you’re doing at Mark-Taylor is truly shaping the future of Multifamily, and we appreciate you being here today. For our listeners, you can learn more about Mark-Taylor companies by visiting Mark-Taylor.com and that’s T A Y L O R. And if you’re looking to amplify your digital marketing, SEO strategy for your communities, head over to ApartmentSEO.com and get your free marketing analysis today. Thank you for tuning in to The Multifamily Podcast, until next time, bye y’all. Bye, everybody.

John: Thank you, guys. Good to see you, Ronn.