Hosts: Ronn Ruiz and Martin Canchola at ApartmentSEO.com 

Guest: Daniel Paulino, VP of Real Estate at Reputation

Martin: Welcome back to The Multifamily Podcast with Ronn and Martin powered by Apartment SEO. And today we have such a very special guest, one that has been too long in the making, and finally, it’s finally, finally happening, someone who’s journeyed from Bozzuto’s VP of marketing and digital strategy to consulting at Paulino Strategies and now becoming a powerhouse voice for Reputation, representing the real estate Multifamily industry. Joining us today is Daniel Paulino, VP of real estate at Reputation. He’s seen the Multifamily industry from both sides, operations and innovation, and brings a unique perspective on digital experiences, marketing and what’s next for our Multifamily space in the age of AI. Daniel, welcome to The Multifamily Podcast.

Daniel: Thank you so much, Martin. I’m super excited to be here, and like you said, this has been a long time in the making. I’m glad we were able to make time on our calendars to make this happen, and I’m super excited to be talking with both of you today. 

Ronn: Yeah, Daniel, definitely personally excited. You are such a thought leader in our industry. I think you’re for those that know you or don’t, I recommend that you follow him, and you’ll know why shortly into this segment of why you want to follow Daniel, but I’m really excited about having you. Thank you for joining us, long time coming. You’re a busy guy, so let’s get started. So to kick things off, I really want to start on a personal note, because I know how much of a family guy you are, and I’ve learned this not just in our minimum talks, but more so how you put yourself front row center and speak to this, and I think that that’s what makes you a well-rounded guy. So, what does family mean? What is the role family plays in how you lead and innovate in our industry?

Daniel: You know, Ronn, it’s such a huge factor in my life, you know, I am all about winning in my career. It’s something that I’ve always taken very seriously. I love to pour everything that I have into my career and do the best that I can. I love to learn and grow and stretch myself. But I’ve found over the years just how much family and work and life outside of work keeps me grounded. It’s where I can unplug and be myself and not have the expectations that I have in my professional life. So, I found that when I focus too much on work, my tank is empty, and I can’t innovate or think as clearly or perform as well. So, when I spend time, when I take time and am very present and spend time with my loved ones, it really enables me to come back to work ready to tackle the next challenge.

Ronn: That totally makes sense.

Martin: I mean, yeah, I know definitely, like I remember when I had my daughter, right? And I had her in my early Twenties, that really lit a fire under me, right? I mean, it just changes your perspective on life, just, you know, you don’t just have just yourself to care for anymore. So, I remember when I had her, it was like, it was like, game on, right? We got to make something happen. So as a follow up to that, how has your family shaped your values as a professional in this industry?

Daniel: Yeah, family reminds me of what really matters. You know, we get so caught up in our professional lives and again, chasing the next win the next, you know, making sure that we meet deadlines and reach our KPIs. But when you really think about it, when I have time to really decompress and think it’s like my daughter, Ava, she doesn’t care about my title, she doesn’t care about my wins at work. All she cares about is if I’m present, if I show up and if I keep my promises. At its core, isn’t that what all of us want from our leaders? 

Ronn: 100%.

Martin: Yeah.

Daniel: Right. So, in my, when I’m thinking about leadership and what I can learn from family, what I’ve really tried to achieve over time, is to create work environments where people feel respected, where they feel seen, and they feel supported. And those are all things that I do at home, so it’s a natural extension, and that’s how I’ve really shaped leadership around what I’ve learned from my family life, but especially from being a father.

Ronn: That’s brilliant and beautiful. I think that, you know, oftentimes, we always ask like, what would you say to your future self, or what would you say, you know, to your younger self? And this question I want to ask though is, if your children or future generations watched your career unfold, what do you think they would take away from your journey?

Daniel: That’s a great question, and something that I’ve actually asked myself a lot over the last few years, and I know we’ll talk about this as we progress through this interview, but one of the things that I really had to confront over the past year and a half, two years, was I wanted my legacy to be about someone who chose courage over comfort, and that has a lot of repercussions into decisions I’ve made, into things we’ll talk about my new role and why I decided to move into a different phase of the industry. But it’s really what I wanted my legacy to be, you know. I’ve at too many times in the past I was scared of taking risks, and I just chose to stay in my comfort zone. But I finally came to the realization it was time in my career to take risks. And so, it was really scary, and we can talk more about that, but that’s what I would like my legacy to be. I would like it to be, you know, someone who tried to make the industry better, and it’s okay if part of that legacy is also, I didn’t ever, I didn’t get everything right, right? That’s normal. That’s how, that’s human. That’s the way that humans are, and that’s the way our journeys go. But if I show up, I keep growing, and I did work that I love, that’s a great legacy. So, if I ever looks back and says, my dad made a difference, and he never stopped showing up for me, that’s the legacy I want, right? Because that encompasses, I made a difference in my professional life, and I still showed up for my daughter.

Ronn: That’s amazing.

Martins: I hope one day she hears this podcast. If you ever listen to this podcast, Ava, make sure to leave us a review.

Ronn: Exactly. 

Daniel: If she can’t find it on chat GPT, she won’t find it, because that’s really the only way that she knows how to use…

Martin: That her standard, huh? That’s her standard? 

Daniel: That’s right. She always says, Daddy, can we ask chat GPT or any question that she has.

Martin: Yeah, that’s our future generation. We see where this is going.

Daniel: That’s right. 

Martin: So perfect segue. Moving on into AI, search and digital disruption, let’s shift gears into one of our favorite topics, AI and digital search with AI reshaping leasing workflows. I mean, everything’s more segmented than ever. What do you think most Multifamily leaders are still missing in this day and age?

Daniel: Yeah, it’s something, you know, we hear so much about, AI, right? It’s the topic of conversation on a daily basis. And to be honest, at times I myself and I hear others say like, I hear this too much. It almost feels like it’s just taking over every conversation. So, but really, when we peel it back, what I would say to answer the question about what are most Multifamily leaders missing when it comes to AI is that they’re treating AI it’s still like, it’s still a tool. It’s like, I kind of think of it as, like they look at it as a like a condiment. You sprinkle it on or add it to the dish and to the recipe, as opposed to thinking about it as a total paradigm shift. So, if we want to take a look, click in and look a little closer, what does that really mean, right? So, what I think is that they see it as a way to speed up workflows, for example, making leasing faster or automating follow ups. But they’re missing the bigger picture. And this is something I try to do a lot, is really think about, okay, let’s turn the noise down. And really, what is the bigger picture? What are we seeing here in the long term? And the way I’ve started thinking about it recently is that AI is the leasing agent now. So, I’ll say it again. AI is now the leasing agent. So, I know that may be controversial, and I want to be clear, I’m not saying that it should replace humans. I’m not advocating for it to replace humans. What I’m saying is, is the reality, whether we like it or not, is that AI is a leasing agent. So, what is, what does that mean? Now, when a prospect starts their journey with a voice prompt or a chat bot, which is what they’re doing now, that’s your first impression. That’s your digital front door. Now it used to be search, or it used to be your website. I remember for many years talking about property websites, or your website being your front door, and it’s no longer your front door, it’s actually AI. Many consumers will, in the future, increasingly, not even be visiting websites. So, if your community doesn’t show up in those AI driven discovery moments, or if you’re misrepresented in those moments, you’re losing you’re losing prospects before you even know it. So, it’s something that we really need to think about in a deeper level, right? This is, again, not a tool, not a point solution, not just something about increasing efficiency or decreasing overhead costs. It’s really fundamentally shaping how people discover your communities and your brand. So, we’ve got to really think about this at a deeper level, and the leaders who get this right, they’re the ones who are not seeing AI as something to add on or something to work with or, you know, now we have to deal with this, but this is an opportunity, and let’s make the most of it.

Ronn: Boom. You heard it first. Getting all the information out there on your AI is huge. So, I want to do something fun, like a little bold prediction time from Mr. Daniel Paulino himself. How do you think by 2030 let’s say. How do you think generative AI will transform leasing? You kind of alluded to some of it already.

Daniel: So, you know, this is an interesting question, and it’s a fun one, and it’s one where I think it really allows me to stake a claim and be bold about it. And you know, it doesn’t mean I have to be right. I may not be right, but…

Ronn: Courage overcame.

Daniel: You know, if I really think about it, where is this going to go? I think that by 2030, AI is going to be running both sides of the leasing process, both the renter facing and the operator facing. So, what does that mean today? Again, I was talking earlier about AI being like almost an afterthought, or like a point solution that’s sprinkled on. We’re really using AI mostly for lead nurturing. That’s used a ton now in the industry. It’s almost, it’s pretty pervasive, almost unanimously used, and it’s super helpful. It’s really transformed how prospects can have that initial experience, and it helps us get people down the funnel faster. It helps our team members really focus on providing a great tour experience and less of that upfront nurturing. But when you really think about it, that’s just the customer experience piece of it. There’s so many back of the house processes that are in the middle when it comes to a lease journey. So, you know, think about it, everything from the approval to we need to, you know, confirm your identity. We need to get your, you know, verify your income. There’s so many pieces of it that are still very manual, so I kind of consider it almost like an ugly middle. There’s a lot of processes on the front that are now improved with AI. And then when you’re a resident, there’s a lot of AI experiences now that make your resident experience better. But right in the middle, in between being a prospect and actually moving in, there’s so much that’s still extremely manual. And so, what I think is that over time, that ugly middle, or that inefficient middle, is going to lessen and it’s going to become shorter and shorter, so increasingly, there’s going to be more and more AI in that entire process. So, what would that look like when that really comes to life in full? What I think is that essentially, there’s going to be AI algorithms that are trained on both sides. One is going to be representing the prospect or the resident, and then one is essentially going to be representing the operator. And those algorithms that the AI are going to be trained to optimize for trust on both sides, for preferences and for speed, and it’s just going to make the entire process much more seamless. And what is that going to enable if that happens? I think the future of leasing offices looks really different. So, my prediction on leasing offices is that eventually they’re going to be really more like a hospitality hub, right? So, it’s just going to be more place to connect to experience, to enhance your entire journey, and not so transactional like it is today. So, humans are going to have a lot more opportunity to focus on curation, on care and on experience, and spend way less time on logistics.

Ronn: And the other thing is, it’s going to build the consistency, right? Within the brands. So, you know, the shopping score is currently in at least an environment. It’s like, some people get it right, some people had a bad day. I think that that consistency is going to be there for the true, optimum customer experience. So, great prediction.

Martin: And I think something to keep in mind is the influence of these AI agents, how in the chat box, I mean, how much they’re going to be able to influence even more. I mean, right now, they’re influencing us in a big way, and I think it’s only going to get even deeper the way they’re able to do it. They’re going to be able to bring in those leases, I’m sure. So, you’ve got to see, you’ve seen the digital landscape evolve, you know, over time, with the rise of AI. What scares you about the future of visibility and what excites you most?

Daniel: Well, I think I’m excited much more than I am scared. That’s generally how I try to approach anything that has to do with innovation, because innovation at its core, is disruptive. It takes us out of our comfort zones, and I try to really embrace it, because there are always a lot of folks around you, whether it’s colleagues or, you know, people in your personal life, that look at it with so much scrutiny and so much skepticism. And there has to be those of us who embrace it. So, you know, I’m happy to share, I think part of what can be a little bit scary, but I really want to emphasize what’s exciting, because that’s really the way I think about it, and how I approach any problem or any challenge that has to do with innovation. So, for me, the scary part can be and again, this is not a, I don’t want to emphasize this too much, because it’s something that we just have to stay on top of. It’s not, I don’t want to, you know, overemphasize this point, but in any case, what can be a little scary about it is that, and we’ve seen this for years, but it’ll increasingly happen where one small shift in an AI model or an algorithm and your properties can vanish from that discovery layer, right? And I’m calling it discovery layer, because I think in the future, we’re already seeing this where AI is becoming what brings people to your brand and what makes them aware of your brand or your product. And so, one quick change on that well, is that really any different than we’ve seen in the past, though? I mean, we’ve seen that with Google for many years, the way that the algorithm changes over time. So, it really is just something we need to watch for. I wouldn’t say it’s something that we need to be afraid of, but one of the things that I think is crucial to think about here, and I know we can. We’ll talk more about this throughout this hour, but AI is heavily weighted towards credibility and trust, much more in ways than we have, than what we have seen in the past with just traditional search. So, in other words, being excellent offline means nothing if you’re invisible online, and the way you can be visible online is if you don’t really understand how credibility and trust and your reputation really weighs into how AI actually weighs who to, which brands and which communities to recommend. So, we can talk a lot more and kind of dissect that, but it’s something to be really thinking about, because if you think about that, we are operational businesses by default, right? Being a property manager, it’s a heavily operations business, but increasingly, over time, we’ve had to be, have digital fluency that we never had to in the past. So that’s where, again, I’ll emphasize being excellent offline, being excellent in your core business means nothing if you’re invisible online. So if you really think through that, that’s a pretty impactful statement, because you can be really good at your core business, but if you’re not on top of these trends, and you’re invisible online because you don’t understand how to stay on top of the trends and make sure that you are being recommended by AI, then inevitably, it’s going to make your core business very difficult, because you’re not going to get that pipeline of prospects and new residents that you would otherwise.

Ronn: That is huge. I love that. You repeated it too for the people in the back.

Daniel: And I love to, I love to, really quickly, just talk about more about what I’m excited about, because the fear is not nearly as important as the excitement. So, what I’m super excited about is that for the first time, and this is what we’re seeing through this age of AI discovery, we can elevate genuine resident voices at scale, personalize their interactions and measure trust in real time. So, there’s a lot to that, but what I really mean is that traditional SEO, there was a lot of ways to game the system there, right? There was so many different things that you can do and levers you can pull to make your communities, or your brand be elevated in the font, in the search font or in the in the discovery funnel, right? But now it’s different. It’s like AI is really the one that’s going to control your brand story. You can say whatever you want about your brand, and you should say as much as you can about it, but at the end of the day, that is becoming decreasing the important part of the overall story that AI is going to surface about your brand, and what it’s going to do is it’s going to bring to the top how your customers feel about you, what they’re saying about you. And there’s so many different measures there that we won’t get into in this conversation, but there’s so many measures there that are so much more important than in the past. So that’s, it can be scary. But what’s really exciting about that is that authenticity is something that we all want. We want authenticity in our friendships, in our relationships. We want authenticity with brands that we love. So, we no longer have to be worried about, hey, we’re being recommended something because this is what, you know, this was who was willing to pay most for that click. This is really more about what are all the trust signals saying about this brand, and what are all those collective invisible voices throughout the internet that have a really experienced this brand, what are they saying? So, I think we’re moving into an age of authenticity, and AI is bringing that to the forefront. So, the brands that lead with transparency and authenticity, they’re gonna rise very fast, and it’s gonna be, it’s a new age. So, I’m super excited about that. I think that that is gonna make all of our lives as consumers where we can trust things much more than we have in the past.

Ronn: That is so huge. I’m fully writing notes by the way, and I can’t wait to debrief after this. But yeah, I think that there’s definitely more accountability on how you present yourself, on your transparency, as you mentioned. I think that that’s where people are really gonna be caught in a crossroads as to, you know, kind of look in the mirror and say, how do we, how are we presenting ourselves? And to your earlier point about the offline, online visibility is, it’s going to make or break many brands. So, you could be amazing, but if nobody knows about it, if no not enough out there, you’re lost in the shuffle so.

Martin: Amazing stuff. Okay, so another thing. In your eyes, how does, what is the next level resident experience actually look like beyond what we want it to be, beyond buzzwords?

Daniel: Yeah, and that’s, you know, we hear about this a lot like, what is the best resident experience look like? and without buzzwords, what I would say is that it needs to be deeply personal. And the only way to scale that, the only way to make that consistent and where it connects with people and surprises and delights them, like how does this brand know me so well? Whether you like it or not, the answer is going to be an answer around technology. It’s about connectivity of data from across our tech stacks. So, I want to be clear on this, because yes, I love technology and I love innovation, but only as a means to an end. I really think much more around consumer psychology, around what drives them to have affinity and loyalty to brands and so well, yes, a lot of answers, sometimes may be focused on technology. I want those people in the audience that are hearing this that you know they’re not techies, or they don’t truly understand why technology is important. Is the sole reason is, is it because it helps you to have a consistent experience across massive brands, massive portfolios. You know, I always like to say, and this isn’t the most glamorous business in the world, but you know, when you think of Chick fil A, like what makes them so great? There’s a couple of things. One of them is that regardless of what Chick fil A you go to across the country, you can always expect that the people are going to be friendly, but you can also expect, always expect that the food is going to be hot and fresh, and so that’s the feeling, that’s the promise, that’s what people like. But when you peel that back and you truly understand how they do it, it is through technology. It is through having processes that are enabled and delivered through technology. So, I want to, you know, I want to be careful and make sure that we are thinking always about the human and their experience. But yes, many times, the only way to deliver that at scale and to really have next level Insights where we can provide them experiences that make them feel like we get them better than anybody else, it is through tech. So, this starts way before anybody ever takes a tour, and continues well beyond their move in. We’re going to be using next level means that you’re using data throughout their entire life cycle, to understand and predict their needs before they have to ask, right? So, we know for example, and here’s some kind of tangible examples, and I’m sure there’s many more, but we’ll make this brief. We love to surprise and delight our customers and reward them for the loyalty. You know, when I was at Bozzuto, we would have several times a year where we would surprise residents with unexpected gifts. It’s something that’s done really frequently throughout the industry, but one of the things that I’ve always thought about is like, we have so much data on who they are and what they like. Why aren’t we using that data to personalize those gifts for them? So, here’s an easy example. We all have package rooms, or we have package problems. For sure, there’s so much technology to scan packages into the buildings now. It is so easy, whether you have tech or you don’t, to know where does Daniel ordering packages from? Ronn is getting packages every week from this brand or so frequently, most of his packages come from a particular brand. So why aren’t we using that to tailor their experience? Yes, the way to leverage that and scale it is through tech. But even if you don’t have the tech, you could easily have somebody in your building looking at that and writing it down. I mean, we, I feel like, I feel like my package deliveries can tell a pretty significant part of my life story of what I like and what I’m passionate about. It’s crazy when you think about that. Another quick example is, you know, we have all, all of us have people in our buildings that travel frequently for work, and there’s so many access control systems now, so we easily can tell through technology whether someone on a frequent basis is out of the, isn’t in their home, because they’re not scanning into any of the doors three days a week as an example. So why aren’t we using that to give them a next level experience and proactively reaching out and saying, hey, while you’re gone, can we help with watering plants, or can we help take care of a pet? You have a, you have an assigned parking spot that’s not being used three days a week. Can we rent that out and share the revenue with you? There’s so many different things like that that don’t necessarily require new technology and investments. We already have it. We just have to pause. We have to zoom out and really think about the end experience of how we can tailor their experience better, and I guarantee you the answer. We already have the data that’s there. So that’s what’s neat about this, is that it doesn’t necessarily require new technology. 

Martin: Yeah, I love that.

Ronn: Next level, right there? 

Martin: Well, keeping on next level resident experiences, what’s probably one of the most emotional resident experiences you’ve ever seen on, you know, with your experience overall.

Daniel: Sure, yeah, so, you know, one of the things that really has stood out, and it’s really impacted how I think about resident experiences and what we do in this industry. It was really impactful and also very memorable, because it’s a personal story. So, three years ago, I was living in Houston, and I was going through a really difficult personal season in my life. In the middle of that, or in the midst of it, I had to find a new apartment, and it was overwhelming to do that. You know, going through the whole process of searching and touring, and I ended up at this one community I’ll never forget it, in Houston, Texas, called Hanover River Oaks. And the leasing agent there, his name is Sam. And from the moment I walked in, he set the tone. He greeted me with warmth. He gave me a thoughtful and a very un-rushed tour, and he made me feel like he saw me, and he understood me, and he didn’t know anything about what was going on in my life. And truly, there’s no way he could, I wasn’t revealing that. But I was in a moment of some, again, some very difficult personal challenges, and what really stuck with me was how he slowed the entire process down. He really listened to me, and when he followed up, it was with so much sincerity and care and such attentiveness. When I had questions, his responses felt so personal. It was the whole thing was, just felt like I was seen and heard in a moment where he had no idea, but I really needed that. And what was additionally impactful about it was that it didn’t stop after I signed the lease. So, he wasn’t a concierge, he wasn’t really part of like the normal living experience. He was more on the front end as a leasing agent, so I saw him constantly touring people throughout the building, but he remained a steady and very hospitable presence throughout my time there, anytime he saw me, he was always so friendly and helpful. And really, what stood out to me about that, and the reason I am bringing it up, is that that experience just taught me that what we can see as routine, as a daily part of our work in this industry, whether it’s showing a unit, following up, managing day to day resident needs, it can be, that all can be happening during a life changing moment, and when it’s done with empathy, it can be so impactful. So, we never know what somebody is walking through, what experiences they’re having in their daily life that we have no idea about. Yet for us, it’s just another day. It’s just another day at the office. But if we slow down, if we’re present, and we lead every single interaction with care, that can be something that will impact people for the rest of her life. And so, while that period of my life is in the past, I’ll always remember that, because at that time, I needed the extra care, and he gave it to me, and it was something that I only experienced that in that one building. And I had toured during that couple of weekends. I had toward probably seven or eight, and it stuck out to me, or stuck out to me, and that’s why I chose to live there.

Ronn: That’s a great story. Kudos to Sam, wherever you are out there, hopefully you’ve hired him since then, Daniel.

Daniel: I was at Bozzuto at the time. So, I felt like I was cheating on Bozzuto. Because one of their buildings, but they didn’t have a building in Texas or in Houston. So, you know, actually, I recently looked him up because, as I was preparing for this conversation, it was so impactful to me that I was wondering where he was at and so I’m following his journey. I won’t say much more, but you know, nevertheless, he’s still in the industry, and I’m sure he’s giving other people very memorable experiences to this day.

Ronn: That’s amazing. Well, Sam, if you’re listening, I mean, kudos to you. Hopefully you have continued to love what you do. And I think that that’s to your point earlier about again, what’s resonated in my head is that, well, you can be amazing offline, but if you’re, you know, in the invisibility online. So how do you translate those Sam experiences, you know, online, as best as you can? I think that that’s going to be the challenge. And the final thing I thought of, I too started in leasing, is I remember that like really seeing people through their crazy journeys of life. Crazy by way of, you know, getting married, divorces, all again, whatever it is exciting, you know, new job and you do have a never underestimate the impact you can make, you know, for people walking through your door, I love your realness and your authenticity. So, I want to take another minute and ask you, what is, in the spirit of being courageous and authentic, what’s a hard lesson that you’ve learned in your journey that more leaders need to face head on?

Daniel: The hardest lesson that I’ve learned in my career, and it was something that took me several years to really confront and be honest with myself about and really try to figure out how to learn from it, is that being good at your job doesn’t automatically mean that you’re ready to lead. Doesn’t mean that you’ll be a great leader. So, when you’re an individual contributor, you can be a superstar, you can win all the awards, you can get all the accolades and the promotions, and be, you know, that reliable person that everybody turns to at the company. The interesting thing about professional journeys is what generally will happen with someone like that is that they’ll get promoted to be a people leader. And the assumption is you were great at everything; you’ve been great at everything you’ve done. You’ve always figured things out. So, we’re going to throw you in to lead other people. And that to me, has been one of the biggest lessons, because truthfully, I was horrible when I was a first-time manager, I led the way that I used to with the same habits that made me successful as an individual contributor. So as an individual contributor, I was super hands on. I would almost solve everything myself. I was chasing perfection. So try, you know, becoming a first time manager and having those same traits, eventually you figure out this is actually alienating my team, and I had to, I had to learn that through making a lot of mistakes, and this wasn’t while I was in Multifamily. This was prior to that, but I just remember getting feedback about my leadership and how it wasn’t working and just being so distraught. Because for the first time, not only in my professional life, but literally in my life, I wasn’t good at something. Because in school and, you know, elementary and middle school and high school and always be, you know, top of the class and all the awards, etc. And same thing when I was in my early in my career as an individual contributor. So now as a manager, just like I just I thought, it’s like, well, I just don’t have good enough people. If more the people that I had on my team were like me, then this wouldn’t be a problem. The problem is that I’m just better than them, and I was so wrong about that, but that’s the way that I thought at the time. And so, I tried to mold this team to being essentially copies of me. And what a mistake, right? That’s really not what leadership is about. So, it’s something that I’m open and vulnerable and don’t mind sharing, because, let’s face it, the issue is too many companies, they promote superstars and don’t give them any leadership training. They just think this person’s already been good, so they’re going to be good at this. And they couldn’t be more wrong. So, it’s a tough shift. I’ve spoken about it openly, and I get so much, I’ve even posted about this on LinkedIn, and I get so much feedback about, you’re right. This is like the dirty little secret that nobody talks about. So, you know, thankfully, I was able to overcome that by really being vulnerable and listening and learning about how to become a better leader, part of it yes is like we talked about earlier, was I also became a father, and during that time, I really learned, like what really matters, and it’s not about being right, it’s not about being smart, it’s about being present, about helping people feel supported and seen, and that you keep your promises. And there’s so many other facets than just that, but I learned those things over time, and it’s been super impactful. So you know what I always do now is, when I have a superstar team member, and I’ve had many, and I’m about to promote them to be a people leader for the first time, is I openly talk to them about, hey, you may not be good at this, but I’m going to help you. It’s going to be a hard transition, because you’re going to want to take their hands off the keyboard, so you can do the work, because you know how to do it better. But I’m telling you, in the long term, you don’t want to do that. That’s destructive, and in the long term, you’re going to have a much better relationship and become a much better leader if you trust people and you empower them do it in their own way. So, it’s something I’ve learned, and I think something we need to all talk about more openly. I know when I talk about it with people that I promote, it makes them feel more comfortable, because inevitably they’ll come back to me and say like, I don’t think I’m doing so well at this. And I told and tell them I knew you wouldn’t be perfect to this. We talked about this already, so therefore it’s okay and let me help you. Let me guide you, right? So, it’s something that I’m passionate about, only because, again, in full disclosure. I was terrible at it.

Ronn: I love the vulnerability. And I think that, yeah, I mean, it’s easy to connect with people when you try. And I think that that’s huge. I love that you do that for your leaders and taking notes.

Martin: So, Daniel, I mean, you’ve made such a name for yourself in the industry. I mean, I remember when I first kind of hit the scene, you know, even just all the conferences, everywhere I go, it’s like I can’t go anywhere without hearing, you know Daniel, yeah, you know he’s somewhere out there on the speaking circuit. You have such a presence. But I wonder, have you ever questioned your path in Multifamily? And if so, what pulled you back in?

Ronn: That’s a great question.

Daniel: We’re really talking about a lot of real truths here. Yeah, so, you know, I accepted the role in Multifamily with Bozzuto, which you know to this day, I pinched myself because I had no idea what Multifamily was about, I never had heard of Bozzuto. And, you know, I pinched myself, because it’s just so humbling when I hear people tell me like, oh, it’s always been my dream to work for Bozzuto, or I always follow what they do. They’re best of the best. I had no idea at the time, but when I interviewed with them, what I heard was, you know, this industry is behind the times. There’s so many challenges. We’re looking for somebody who’s got experience in other industries to help, you know, help us solve some of the challenges that just haven’t been solved in this industry. So, I love to solve big problems. I like to say that I have always chosen that path in my career over titles and money. Because to me, it’s always all about, what do you wake actually waking up to do? You know, the great title and the money that all is great for a certain period of time, but eventually you just realize, what am I actually, you know, you think about, what am I actually waking up to do? And I saw the challenge, and I thought, or I heard about the challenge when I was interviewing, I thought, wow, this is something that really speaks to me. This is a massive industry. It impacts so many people, and yet this company, who, through my research, I saw was a leader, but I didn’t really understand the quite the extent of it, is telling me that there’s so many opportunities and they need someone like me. So, I was like, okay, let’s sign up for this. This sounds awesome. Well, within my first year, you know, I started during COVID, so that presented its own challenges. But essentially, yes, I started questioning in the first year, is this too traditional? Is it too slow to evolve? And so, I really was like is this really what I want to do? Because I’ve worked in industries that are much more advanced and have more tools, and, you know, have made it way further than a lot of the tech that I’m seeing in Multifamily. But what pulled me back was the human side. And I really, when I say the human side, I’m talking about two different aspects of it. First of all, of course, what are we, what are we all striving to do in this industry? We’re actually impacting and shaping people’s lives. They live in our buildings. They spend most of their time in our buildings. They spend most of their money living in our buildings. So that was impactful to me, just around, you know, how can I help to provide a better experience where people really love living with us? And secondly is, once, you know, I started, and it was very random, how I got my first speaking opportunity, and then that turned into multiple more, and then turned into advisory positions, etc. And I just was astounded, because, you know, I was never visible in any industries before that. And so, it wasn’t like I was on speaking circuits, but what I learned was just how this industry craves thought leadership and how things that because I was passionate and convicted about how we can do better, and I was fortunate enough to work for amazing people at Bozzuto who trusted me and supported my visions and helped me invest in those. Then I got to speak about them at conferences about some of those wins and innovations at conferences, and I would just have people coming up to me like that was inspiring. I want to do more of this. This is, we need more of this. And it was so humbling to me, because I just, it’s not like I, you know, thought much of myself, or, you know, it’s not like I’m anything, you know, different or better than anybody else, anyone else, just happened to be fortunate enough to be in this position. And so, it struck me. And the reason it struck me is like, hey, if this is an industry that craves this, we’re shaping people’s lives. But also, the people who work in this industry want to hear more. And every time that I’m having an opportunity to share a talk, I keep hearing all this, you know, positive feedback. It just made me, I felt so like seen and valued, and it just was, I felt like I finally found a home after all these years being in different industries. And so, it wasn’t something that, like it made my ego get bigger. What really, it just made me feel a sense of responsibility, like I want to do more of this. I want to help more people. I want to solve more problems and inspire more people, not to get the attention on me, but out of genuinely, out of just out of appreciation. That after kind of floundering and kind of just surviving in other industries, I now have a place where I can make an impact. And it’s something that really spoke to me, so that felt like it gave me meaning. And that’s when being in this industry stopped being a job, and it became a purpose for my life. And so, what I would say is that, since then I’ve never questioned it. The only thing that I know for sure is, no matter what, I am not leaving this industry. The people are amazing. I feel like I have a nationwide extended family that has welcomed me, and I’m humbled by it, and I feel proud of that, not because I earned it, but just proud to be part of that family that I almost feel lucky to just have kind of stumbled into.

Ronn: I love how you’ve taken the approach as the, we’ll say, big brother, right, to identify your purpose driven impact that you have, and, you know, taking the opportunity, I think that, yeah, definitely. I mean, you’ve elevated the industry in that regard and inspired a lot of us, and I’ll say myself included. So, thank you for that. And welcome to Multifamily. You are never leaving, whether you try or not. When you were, after you left, Bozzuto, I was like, oh my God, this guy can go anywhere, and hopefully he stays in Multifamily. So welcome back. So, with that being said, maybe this will help take us another journey. What are you still chasing? Whether personally, professionally, that continues to fuel that passion today.

Daniel: For me, it’s all about impact, you know, I’ve now, it’s been, you know, 20, a little bit over 20 years in my career, and I constantly, you know, I like to win, I like to solve big problems, and I’ve been fortunate enough to do some really amazing stuff. But when I really have been over the last couple of years thinking about, well, what’s next for me, right? It really, the answer that started becoming clear was that it was around impact. So, one of the hardest decisions that I’ve ever had to make was leaving Bozzuto, you know, Bozzuto gave me my shot. They were the ones who believed in me and who hired me. And not only did they do that, but then they followed it up with things that were just crucial to my path, which was, first of all, believing in my visions and supporting them. Second was just being the most genuine, kind, passionate people that I’ve ever worked around. And so, I felt honored to be part of that family. I say that I’ll always bleed green. I’m still, I consider myself a part of their extended family. And I frequently, you know, I think of them, I still connect with many of the folks there. And it’s something that has been so meaningful to me and made me feel so humbled that they gave me that opportunity. But when it, you know, to answer your question, I started thinking about like, how can I make a bigger impact on the industry? Again, not because I want the limelight, but because I felt so proud to be part of the industry. And I started to really understand how the challenges that so many operators face. And I really was just thinking like, how can I make a bigger impact? How can I help more people? And it’s never, it’s never been a pursuit about making a name for myself. It’s been more around; how can I make an impact that leaves a legacy that actually helps the industry move forward? So, for me, that’s really what it’s all about, Ronn. That’s how I made, that’s why I made my decision to leave Bozzuto, not because there was, you know, nothing. It was nothing but the best experience there. But I wanted to impact more of the industry. And that I didn’t have the answer at the time when I left of what that would be. And so, that’s why I made this, I think if we go back to earlier talked about courage over comfort. I really had to confront that, because in my life, I’ve been so anti risk, and I didn’t ever want to not have a job. So, like purposely choosing to leave the best job I’ve ever had with people I love and be unemployed was super scary, but I felt like I owed it to myself, because I know the legacy I want to leave. I talked about that earlier; about the legacy I want to leave. I want my daughter and future generations to think. And for me, it was really around making a bigger impact on an industry that gave me a shot, that I feel humbled to be a part of. So, I needed to go on that journey, and it was a scary journey, but I’m so happy to have found what I think is the best fit for me that’s going to allow me to give that impact, that I really am so passionate about giving back.

Ronn: That’s huge. Yeah, comfort for sure. 

Martin: Now we know you’re gonna make a big impact over there. So, moving onto Reputation. I’d love to kind of hear more about, you know, your new role at the company, and also kind of learn more about the AI native intelligence platform that really helps integrate, you know, real time data from sources like Yelp and other platforms. How do you see this transforming how property management firms make decisions, especially when it comes to resident sentiment and competitive positioning for them?

Daniel: All right. Yeah. So, first about my role. You know, reputation has been a company that has actually partnered into Multifamily for many years. It is a Silicon Valley company that actually helps various industries, Multifamily being one of them. And my story, I think I was, it’s always going to be such a neat story, because Bozzuto has been long time partners with reputation, so it has gray star and other well-known names. So, I knew them well from my time at Bozzuto. And Bozzuto, one of the things that you always hear about there is that they care about their values, their integrity and their reputation more than anything else, more than business metrics, more than KPIs. And they really, you know, at first it just sounds like that’s nice to say, but do they really mean it? And I saw it every day in action there, and it’s something that’s so part of their core values and how they operate. So, what was neat about it was when Reputation approached me a few months ago about this opportunity, was what I heard immediately was, you know, we’ve been partnering into this industry for some years, but we’ve never had a very sincere focus on it. It’s never been something where we have had a dedicated team. We’ve never had a leader for it, for the vertical, for property management, or even for real estate. We’ve never, we don’t have any team members that used to work in the industry and really understand the needs of it. So, we are now at a point where we want to be better partners to the industry. Want to drive, deliver more value. So, to me, that spoke very highly of why, what they cared about. It wasn’t about market share. It was about being a better partner. So, when you go back to impact and like the decision I made, where I where I wanted to go next in my career. This really spoke to me. And so, I had the opportunity throughout the interview process to speak with the CEO and other C level and senior executives. And everything I heard was just so genuine about how they wanted to bring more value and deliver more results and wins for this industry. So, I knew they already did great because, again, Bozzuto has been partnering with them for many years. But also, the conversation to your point, Martin turned into their advances and their investment into their technology, right? Anyone who knows me or who’s followed my journey or seen me speak or followed me on LinkedIn knows that I’m extremely passionate about the intersection of marketing and technology and AI. And it’s a passion for me, because I believe in the power of what it can deliver, as far as business results and experiences for your customers. So, when I started really digging into their technology. What I heard and saw was that in the last two years, they completely rebuilt their entire platform from the ground up to have AI at its core. And I want to be careful that I don’t turn this into an AI conversation, because I know that that can be alienating for some people, but when I, when I really looked at it, it’s, you know, there’s so many companies now that are bolting AI on to all their solutions. They’re plugging into APIs from some of the well-known LLMs. And at the end of the day, that’s great. It’s giving them some new features and benefits that they didn’t have before. But I really think of like, when I think of that, what it actually is, is like bolting on a jet engine to a horse carriage. It’s like, if your platform is outdated and it doesn’t, it can’t scale to the amount of context and the amount of queries and capabilities in the compute power that AI needs, you’re bolting on amazing capabilities to something that really can never harness the full power of it. So, when I saw and spoke to the CEO and saw the investment that they’ve made over the last two years, that it was approved by their board to completely throw out their old platform and build it from the ground up. I got to talk to some of their data scientists and product leaders. I was really impressed by it and so but at the end of the day, it didn’t become an exercise about do they have promising technology? Do they have impressive technology? It’s all about what’s the means to an end, right? It’s about, I keep saying impact. So, I know where AI is going. I know how consumers are using AI. And at the end of the day, what right now, what brands need is to really understand how they’re competing in this new age of AI discoverability, and how do we measure up against our competitors? So, I don’t want to turn this into a commercial for Reputation, but what I’ll say is I definitely checked all my boxes from being the tech geek that I am and the person who I am, who loves to connect technology with delivering amazing business results and experiences for consumers. And it was extremely impressive, I saw, I’ve seen the roadmap, I’ve seen what’s coming down the pipeline, and I’m really passionate about where we’re going next and how we’re going to be able to bring so much value to the operators who choose to partner with us. 

Ronn: I think that’s brilliant. I think that, honestly, yeah, it’s a great, it’s a great position for you. I think that in that, now that you’ve seen, you’ve been on, obviously, the client side, as we say, and the supplier side. Now you know, newly into the supplier side, welcome, by the way, to the dark side. Can’t wait to see what you continue to do. But with that, I really want to, I have this question I want to ask about; what’s one thing you’ve always wanted to say to our industry, but never have until now?

Daniel: So, yeah, that’s a great question. You know, I’m going to take this back to one of the very first things I ever heard about when I was interviewing to even have the opportunity to join this industry. And I didn’t know anything about it, right? I had worked in consumer products and financial services and publishing before this. One of the very first things I heard was this industry is behind the times, where we’re lagging. We need to innovate. We need to do better to keep up. And so, what I will say, you know, five and a half years after being in this industry and having experienced so much and having had the opportunity to get to know so many people, and be fortunate enough to serve on advisory boards and get to know so many founders and just see like really, just experience so much in this industry. What I would say is that we already have so much technology. The amount of technology that we have is overwhelming, and I think we need to stop thinking about that our industry is behind the times. I don’t think we’re behind the times. What I think that we need to improve, and what I would encourage us to really change our perspective on, is that it’s actually time to take a pause, to look broadly at the tools that we already have, and we’ve the capabilities of those tools in a way that provides an improved and personalized experience for our residents. And add to that and also provide better outcomes for our stakeholders and our investors. So, I want to emphasize that we’re too often in this industry, chasing solutions, chasing the next biggest thing and that constant chasing and shiny light syndrome I call, is what causes us to feel like we’re never caught up. There’s always something better. The truth of the matter is we have more than enough. So, let’s stop thinking about new tech, new tech, new tech, and let’s start slowing down, taking things in, zooming out, and how do we provide better experiences for our residents and better outcomes for our stakeholders, our owners, our clients, our investors. If we think that way, all the tools and all the tech is already there, we just have to weave it into an amazing experience that produces the best outcomes for all those individuals I mentioned.

Martin: Amen. 

Ronn: I think it’s world time too, with, you know, revolution of AI. I think that a lot of people are looking at, you know, a lot more now, and it’s like, like you said, let’s pause, take a look at the broader picture.

Martin: Now’s the time to be connecting all the dots and trying to have it all work together. But yeah, the industry does have that shiny object syndrome, that’s for sure.

Ronn: I call it noise like, oh…

Martin: When there’s like, a new buzzword, right? With the whole Geo, anytime there’s like, little acronym, they like it just blows up. It’s crazy. So Daniel, when it’s all said and done, what do you hope your legacy and impact on this industry will be? 

Daniel: That’s a big one. I mean, I want people to say that I didn’t just chase results, that I lifted people up, that I challenged what was possible and that I made the work field meaningful. If I can do all those things, then I think that results in one statement that would mean the world to me if it was my legacy, which is that I left things better than I found them. 

Martin: Yeah, that’s beautiful. Well, Daniel, thank you so much for being here. And I mean, this was just a long time in the making, and I’m just so happy that we got to share the time today. You know, being able to push us out and just kind of tell your story, especially with such a new journey on the way. You know, you’re working now for one of the most influential tech platforms in the space. So just make sure you know everyone listening today, check out reputation.com and be sure to connect with Daniel or team from Reputation. And if you have any questions about their products or services. And to our audience, if you found today’s episode helpful or inspiring, be sure to follow like and leave a review for the Multifamily podcast on all the podcast platforms. And remember, get your free marketing analysis from apartmentseo.com, so we can help you turn your leads into leases. Until next time, bye all, bye Daniel, bye Ronn.

Ronn: Cheers.