Speakers: Ronn Ruiz and Martin Canchola

Guest: Rachael Kish of Christopher Todd Communities

Martin: All right. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to the multifamily podcast with Ronn and Martin, your source for the latest multifamily trends happening right now. And today’s topic on Build Terrain communities is one Ronn and I have been wanting to do for quite some time now. So, we are very happy to finally bring the BTR strategy front and center with the company who has been doing this since 2016. We’re thrilled to have today’s guest Rachael Kish, who oversees the direction of strategic initiatives and national expansion for Christopher Todd communities, a build over in company starting the rental community revolution, Rachael Kish, welcome to the multifamily podcast.

Rachael: Thank you. Good to be here.

Ronn: Super excited. Well, I personally am so grateful, like Martin mentioned, to have the opportunity to speak to you. I’m really excited for our audience to be able to hear directly from some of the experts, 2016 was ages ago when you think there was a pandemic in between that, so the role has very much changed. But before we dive into today’s topic, can you fill us in a little bit about how Todd Christopher Communities came to be and then your overall mission and of course, we always love a good Inception story.

Rachael: Sure, absolutely. I love this story as well. So, Christopher Todd communities was founded by Todd Wood, our CEO, who really didn’t have a real estate background, except for building some custom homes kind of as a hobby. He is a formal bread maker, owned bakery for many, many years, couple of decades, I believe and really was a disruptor in the bread space, if you will. He started out making white bread but wanted to leave an imprint on mankind was bread and so he thought how can I do bread better? And so, he developed and started producing manufacturing organic bread before it was on trend. He would go to local retailers and pitch the idea to banks and everyone said people won’t buy organic bread, maybe apples and oranges but organic bread isn’t a thing. Nice try. But in typical Todd Wood fashion, he persisted anyway, he had a vision, and he likes to make visions come alive. So, he developed his organic bread and finally a little store called Costco caught on and decided that they would go ahead and distribute his bread. So, he sold two packs, and you would know his bread under the name of Dave’s Killer Bread. So, he went to sell his bread manufacturing company and did very, very well. At the age of 57 he retired and played golf every day and went to the gym every day. And every day his wife asked him what else are you going to do today? Somewhat inspired by his wife’s motivation to do something new with his time. He thought well, I like real estate, maybe I’ll get into that again. And so, as he started taking a look at the multifamily landscape, he thought to himself, this is white bread, like it’s the same over and over again. There’s no new ideas here. So, he was inspired by this little cottage style product that he saw in Tucson, and he thought I can do that. That is organic bread in my mind. And so, that’s what he did. So, he formed his group in 2016, sourced all of his land, developed his land, worked with a great operator in the area, leased up his developments, stabilize them and sold them, he did that seven times in the space of three years. So, this is a guy that once he decides what he wants, he just goes at it and he goes at it really, really hard. And he did very, very well. Whether he meant to or not, he timed his developments and he executed the sales like perfectly. He’s a genius. And so those deals sold at three and a half, maybe 4.2 cap, which really positioned him well for what is now a national expansion of Christopher Todd communities.

Ronn: Yeah, what a great story. Wow, I had no idea.

Martin: And bread to build around, that is amazing.

Rachael: And bread to build around. That’s exactly what it was. Well done.

Martin: Making bread in a whole another way.

Ronn: I’ve heard about store Costco before, by the way.

Rachael: Yes, just a little store. 

Ronn: Imagine what that did for him. Yeah.

Martin: Absolutely. So, let’s start with the basics of Build to Rent for those who may be completely new to this topic. Let’s start with defining what are Build to Rent communities and horizontal communities, please?

Rachael: Yeah, absolutely. That definition is still I would say in the works. The Build to Rent space is relatively new. Obviously, it’s made a big impact. It’s become its own niche within the multifamily space. But there’s still some defining I think, to sort out. right now, I would encourage you to think about it in three different ways. In the beginning, Build to Rent was more of a scattered site, portfolio, an invitation homes type model where a big company would go in and buy maybe distressed homes, from maintop operators. So, it’s just very scattered single family rental homes, operated largely with technology, similar to how you would operate multifamily, but the scattered nature made it a little bit more complex. Then there’s another segment where organizations like American homes for rent will go in purchase individually planted lots from like big builders and create purpose built Rental Communities that look and feel like for sale homes may be built within a master plan, again, individually planted single tax parcels. So, those operate a little bit differently, and then there’s horizontal multifamily, and I would say that’s where the Christopher Todd communities live. They live within that that bucket so to speak. So, purpose built rental homes, usually one two- and three-bedroom homes detached, maybe the one bedrooms or duplex style, but in almost every case, those two and three bedrooms will be fully detached. We build on one single tax parcel. So, it develops and operates, and it transacts and trades just like traditional multifamily just looks like little houses. There’s also one other kind of model that lives within that concept is that they do go vertical, it’s not a true horizontal multifamily. We do see some townhome style developments all happening on one single tax parcel but just you know two stories. So, I would say those are your three buckets scattered site, kind of aggregated for sale homes all on together, bundled together and then purpose-built Rental Communities on a single tax parcel.

Ronn: That’s amazing. I didn’t know about the single tax parcel. That makes sense and easier a little bit, right? Quote and unquote, easy.

Rachael: Yes easier. Finance differently and a little bit more easily actually. So, your easy word is not inaccurate. We can benefit from all of the same financing of traditional multifamily.

Ronn: So, on the residence side, how would a potential resident be interested or why would they be interested in this particular type of multifamily product versus your conventional apartment community?

Rachael: Sure. Well, our particular demographic of Christopher Todd and it’s consistent in the horizontal space. We are very attractive to Gen Z millennials, like the aging millennial and the boomer crowd, so high wage-earning young professionals who maybe don’t have the dream of home ownership, or if they do, they just don’t have quite the savings for it yet. And now the interest rates are prohibitive. So, they’re looking for a very dignified living experience. They’ve already lived in a traditional multifamily. They’re looking for something more than that. So, they really like this detached style living feels like a house. It’s very luxurious. It’s amenitized just like their last class A apartment community, but it’s just another tear up. And then for the retiring community you know, they’ve lived in their four-bedroom home with all the landscaping, all the costs and burdens associated with homeownership and now they’re looking to downsize. They want to chase their grandbabies. They want to travel, but they want to, again, a dignified living experience, they don’t want to go back to when they were 22 years old living in an apartment, they want that very private, secure space. And so, we are very attractive to that demographic as well. And I think that’s what sets us apart from traditional multifamily. We don’t really compete with that group. And also, as far as single-family homes for sale, we compete with that demographic specifically, but we win because people are looking for experience more than they’re looking for home ownership and they’re looking for convenience, so we kind of fall in that in between space.

Ronn: Yeah, for sure. I love those buckets.

Martin: Now, what would you say are the benefits of renting your home versus buying your home? I think overall, not only that you’re disrupting the actual rental home market in itself, right? Because they usually have to put first and last month’s rent and a lot of cases. And your down payment it seems for getting into one of your homes is like very, very affordable. And so, it makes it a lot easier for people who maybe have a family, a growing family. They would see your buildings as more of an opportunity than say a little apartment. So, what would you say to that, like versus renting your home versus buying your home overall?

Rachael: Yeah, well, renting the home, again, it does reduce some upfront costs. If you’re going to buy, you’re gonna have to come up with this huge downpayment, maybe 20% of the total cost. When you’re renting our homes, you just have to come up with maybe a $250 or $500 security deposit which is fully refundable. So, access to entry is much more manageable, can be done much more quickly. It’s also very, very convenient. So, you have all the privacy of a standard rental home like kind of mixed out in a built or in a traditional community or even an old home, like you have all that same experience except it’s elevated because you have your own backyard but you don’t have to maintain it. You have a pool, but you don’t have to maintain it. You have a fitness center that you don’t have to drive to, you could just walk out your front door and step in and enjoy like a very well-equipped fitness center. You have on-site professional management. So, it’s like the best of both worlds, right? Is comfortable living but with all the privacy of your own home in your own backyard, no neighbors above you or below you. We’re very, very pet friendly. So, you can you know, just let your dog out your back door out the pet door that’s included in every home. So, you don’t have to worry about walking your dog in your pajamas, walking down the stairs. It’s just, it’s so private, so comfortable, so convenient. So that’s why our model, I believe, wins.

Ronn: And you don’t have rising HOA fees for those typical type of communities.

Rachael: Right, and all your neighbors have been screened, right? If you don’t have that guarantee when you own a home, you don’t know who’s moving then next to you. The HOA isn’t running a background check on those individuals, but a professional management company is doing that. So, you have some measure of certainty about the quality of the neighbor that you’re going to have.

Martin: I like that. 

Ronn: Now for sure that definitely cannot be understated. That’s huge. That’s a win, win right there. Now with all that being said obviously the best, one of the best parts too is it these are still relatively brand-new homes that people are also moving into, right? So how often do you have an environment where something new is being built and for you to just be one of the first residents to live in it? And with that being said, obviously you guys are investing, you know, tons of money from obviously the land acquisition to all of the amenities and everything that you described, including a pet door, like that’s super cool, right? So, how do you ensure that your Build to Rent projects remain profitable and sustainable for the long term?

Rachael: Yeah, that’s a great question. Well, like you said it, it starts with the land acquisition. So that’s a competitive process, making sure that you get in on a really competitive land basis. If the land is more affordable, obviously the project is going to underwrite. And then specifically at Christopher Todd, we’re able to manage and control costs because we build the same kind of product if you will, over and over again. So, we have a really dialed in, we know what our expenses are going to be because we’re building the same thing. We can buy in bulk, so that that helps on the development side. We also have great partnerships and great relationships again, helping drive costs, execute timelines, more efficiently. And then once we’re operating in the communities, they do operate just like, I would say very similarly to traditional multifamily and everything’s new. Most of the appliances and all of the electrical and the water heater, that’s all under warranty. So, for a time the onsite team is even having to touch those things because there’s going to be a warranty provider that’s involved. And then once you, you know, if you’re able to build, Build to Rent communities in somewhat close proximity, you can actually manage multiple communities with like a floating or roving team, reducing your payroll costs, which is one of your, you know, most expensive operating costs. So, you can still provide high level service with fewer people paying really talented people better than market wages, so you can source them, attract them more easily and retain them better for the long run. So, from a sustainability standpoint, Build to Rent  has a long runway, I mean we’re using all the newest technology, trying to be very cutting edge, certainly leaning into ESG initiatives, making it just a really attractive product to build, to operate and also to sell.

Ronn: It’s amazing. Sign me up.

Martin: So, how do you see the future Build to Rent industry evolving and what opportunities and challenges do you anticipate?

Rachael: Well, like I said before, I believe Build rent has a huge runway. I say that because there’s a lot of money in the market is kind of sitting on the sidelines right now. But they’re developing fund groups, basically to deploy dollars, billions of dollars specifically into the Build to Rent space. So, with all of that capital kind of pent up and ready to be deployed. There’s a lot of creative people working right now and we’re among them to design and develop and enhance the Build to Rent product is so new, like there’s just so many different ways you can take it. Once the constraints, the capital market constraints, ease up a little bit and land prices adjust. Right now, sellers are you know, trying to figure out what the new normal is and buyers are, you know, being, they’re waiting for sellers to realize that the cost of land has changed. Once all of that happens, that money is going to flood the market and there’s going to be a lot of development that happens. And then it’s going to be done really creatively. Some people will do it more affordable style product. Some people will be very, very high end with you know, rents over and above a typical mortgage payment. They’re going to build a wine fridge, they’re going to have marble, I mean, so I think the offering ranges are going to really open up and we’re gonna see that product diversify. There’s also incredible demand for this new type of home and way to live. And so, as the demand is there and I believe increases, people will become more and more creative, and we’ll just see it continue to borrow.

Ronn: That’s amazing. I think it’s definitely good use of our land as well, because it’s getting more and more scarce, right? And expensive.

Rachael: Definitely, definitely.

Ronn: So, can you share some success stories or lessons obviously, that you learned from your experience in the Build to Rent market?

Rachael: Sure. Well, because we are one of the first to enter the market and really define it. We had significant hurdles with municipalities, as we were going and taking down land and entitling land and getting permits for land. We operate and we develop much like multifamily, except we look like for sale homes. And so, municipalities took a while to understand who we are, what we’re doing, and the neighbors didn’t get it. And so, there was a lot of outcry. You know, nimbyism is probably a phrase you’re familiar with, not in my backyard. The neighbors came out and they expected that what we were offering was going to be like public housing and really poor quality and attract a terrible rent, rental basis. There’s a lot of stigma still associated with renters. So, we really had to put a lot of effort into educating the municipalities and the neighbors about who we are, what we build, the kind of demographic that we attract, the incomes that we attract, how we qualify residents, or professionally managed our communities in many ways. I would say in almost all cases, look better than communities managed by an HOA, but those conversations take time. And those were the early challenges that we had. As the space grows and municipalities are becoming more familiar. I would say some of that tension is easing. But that is something to be mindful of if you’re going to take on Build to Rent. It’s just how you have conversations with the municipalities.

Ronn: Got tons of education, I’m sure came from that right.

Rachael: Absolutely storyboards, videos, testimonials. Anything that you can do to just show high end living. Also, you know, creating additional revenue for the city. We are creating a lot of demand on schools because at least Christopher Todd builds one in two bedrooms, so we don’t have a lot of school-aged children in our homes. Certainly, were family and kids friendly, but just because of the space factor we don’t have a lot of kids. So, we can bring money to a city without putting a lot of demand on their infrastructure. 

Ronn: That also to your point about, earlier about the full-on background checks, right. So, while people are thinking that stigma with renters, it’s like well, our renters though are being screened and you know, so that kind of mitigates some of that maybe concern of like, what kind of clientele is coming into our neighborhood and lowering my property value, or whatever?

Rachael: Absolutely. It’s just a conversation you have to have and just be patient. Where people don’t understand, it’s expected that they would be frustrated or concerned but it’s just taking the time to educate. 

Ronn: Yeah, for sure.

Martin: And you see, probably after all the communities are built and you know, you’re a part of the community that you know, they probably see it in a good light, I think overall.

Rachael: Absolutely.

.

Martin: So, I love the term land banking. You know, you mentioned that before in some of our talks and the whole strategy behind you know, acquiring land, holding the land and then building up the most opportune time. I’m curious to what the construction process is like for Build to Rent communities, you know, the permitting process, breaking ground, I mean, all that stuff. I know in California has a lot of regulations, I’m sure in other states are too. What’s kind of like the story behind that.

Rachael: Sure. So, it’s, you know, all starts to land. It’s helpful to have great representatives in the regions where you’re building. Some of the land can be sourced in from like, marketed avenues, so, you know, working with land brokers as one avenue but we found that most of the time, the land that we take down is going to be kind of off market. So, you’re going to need that guy in that region that knows that farmer, who is looking to sell and that is how the land takedown is typically going to happen and where you can get a really get in for great land bases. From there, you just have to go through the municipalities to, you have to do all of the testing of the soil. There’s a lot of environmental testing that has to go on, making sure that you can pull power and utilities and how quickly or easily can that be done. Is there an appropriate infrastructure? Are there roads built out or traffic signals going to go in? After, you know your community has developed creating hurdles for, you know, ingress and egress. So, those are things you have to understand early on in the process. And then again, just educating municipalities, getting permits, and there’s a lot of back and forth. Some municipalities are very cooperative, others have strong regulation, so it just depends, but it’s most helpful to have people in those areas who know, you know, the city council, know their appetite or kind of where, what their hang ups are, so that you can come with very teed up offering to that municipality and in hopes of getting it across the line. Then it’s just, you know, you’re going to be your underground’s, then your horizontal, then your vertical and all of that can take, depending on how long entitlements. It could be a year to three years, just really depending on the municipality, and then probably about 18 months before, you know once you’re through all that before you can start pre-leasing. It’s safe to estimate on a smooth-running deal three years, before you have a cash flowing community. 

Martin: That’s not bad at all.

Ronn: Wow, that’s awesome. So how are you, you kind of touched this a little bit, but how are your local communities impacted? And what does your company obviously try to do to provide more benefits from the city, so they let you continue to build it?

Rachael: Sure. Well, what we’re finding right now is cities, you know, they’re looking to solve a housing supply problem. And they’re looking for diversity of housing options. So, especially where there is a lot of masterplan communities. Those communities don’t want to have like a three or four storey garden style, or maybe even high rise, depending on what part of town you’re in. Development going right by a neighborhood, they don’t want people staring down in their backyards. So, one offering that’s great for horizontal multifamily is, we kind of bridge the gap between retail or industrial and master plans because the renters in our community aren’t as affected or fazed by maybe the industrial, you know, Amazon warehouse at quarter mile down the road, but a homeowner is, so that’s a great little spot. We can bridge the gap between the Amazon warehouses of the world and the master plan that’s two miles down the road. And the residents within masterplans are much more receptive to our building style because we don’t go into a two storey. There’s no one, no renter is going to be looking down into a homeowner’s backyard and you know giving them grief, not that I think actually happens, you know, very much at all, but that’s the fear that you have to overcome in those conversations. So, it’s just you know, a new product. It’s very high end, very comfortable, and a little bit more neighbor friendly, and we can live in those little awkward parcels within towns and so that’s attracted to municipalities.

Martin: What would you say is an average lot size that you guys try to go after?

Rachael: Christopher Todd specifically will go between 20 and 30 acres, but there’s a number of ways you can do it. Some developers can do it in six, you know, acres, if they want to really pack in that density. We build 10 to 12 homes per acre. So, we like to build about 200 home communities. So, I would say 20 to 30 acres just depending upon the net usable acreage.

Martin: That’s beautiful. I love talking about land and all that stuff. I love hearing all your ,all that good stuff. So, thank you for sharing. 

Rachael: No problem.

Martin: So, this is another fun question, which I’m definitely interested, we’re personally interested invested in this for ourselves for the Build to Rent model. How do you guys currently approach marketing and advertising for your Build to Rent properties, for like maximum exposure and lead generation on Google and you know, other venues like social media? Curious on that.

Rachael: Absolutely. So, we have a slightly different approach. And there are some who subscribe to the same methodology. We don’t use a lot of iOS; we try first and foremost to have just very powerful domain dominance. So, we have custom built websites, custom built microsites, and we have very efficient SEO and PPC campaigns that we run and strong social campaigns as well. So, we try to do things very consistent with like cutting-edge digital marketing, and that has been very successful effort for us.

Ronn: Yeah, definitely, as I, you know, talk with clients that are jumping in the space for thinking about it. They definitely know that it is a little bit of a different beast, and we are in that world developing more and more products for it because gotta kind of market it a little bit different.

Rachael: Yeah, it is, marketing in multifamily, especially in BTR is changing pretty rapidly. So, kudos to you for staying on top of that and making that offering available to your clients. 

Ronn: Yeah, for sure. We, you know, we’ve been doing similar work and we did work with the invitation homes and stuff back in the day to on that product. And that was a very different scenario because it was that one off home, that would immediately rent. And then we’re like, okay, stop that ad because that house is rented. Whereas with a Build to Rent product it’s great because there’s multiple ways to rent, much like a traditional multifamily.

Rachael: Exactly. 

Ronn: So yeah, we’ve been in that ebb and flow too, and learning lessons here. So, you talked about marketing, but can we jump into a little bit of technology in enhancing your resident experience and streamlining your official property management processes?

Rachael: Absolutely. So, Christopher Todd, we offer smart gated communities and fully smart homes. So, keyless entry. If there’s not a technology like a pub in the home, it’s going to be an app. In fact, we’re moving that direction anyway, getting rid of the hubs. And go into that single pane of glass app based from someone’s phone. So, controlling your door, your thermostat, your lights. There’s moisture sensors, motion sensors, so you can have a comprehensive understanding of how your home is operating and functioning from an efficiency perspective. And it’s all monitored through an app on your phone. We also offer a video doorbell, which is great because that way you can see, you know when the dog walker shows up or the Munchkin gets home from school or the Amazon package is delivered, it’s all there for you. We also feel like it creates a high level of accountability within the community because everyone knows they’re on camera all the time. So, it just, it becomes like its own little like block watch, if you will, but just on a very high-tech level. The residents are very, very responsive. They love it. And I think it’s part of why the demographic and our residents are very sticky. They want to stay because all of that tech is there and if they go buy a home, then they have to put it in themselves. And that’s just a pain in the neck. Why would you do that when it’s already there for you at Christopher Todd?

Ronn: Yeah, for sure. And as you’re saying all that, I’m thinking of, you know, just in our own homes when you do buy that technology, right and just that investment as well, whether it’s in an alarm company that is now full smart or not is truly an additional expense that you have. So, having a built into your home is huge. And I’m assuming you adapt the best technology out there at the time of build, right? So, it’s like the latest and greatest not just this old school alarm company system or something whatever.

Rachael: Right. Correct. 

Ronn: Yeah. That is amazing. I have, so I invest in multifamily already and I have for years. This is the question that I love the most and we’ve talked a little bit about it, and I’d love to even know even more, and I know a lot of our audience that we have our investors as well. So, what are the benefits when you actually invest in a Build to Rent single family community?

Rachael: I think one of the benefits and I’ll start with like an emotional benefit, if you think of that from an investor perspective. 

Ronn: Sure.

Rachael: But I also invest in multifamily, so I can appreciate putting my money into something that is new and innovative and it just feels good right to be a part of this new offering, this new culture, this new way to live, that you your money can create for other people. So, that’s just fun from an emotional perspective if you think about it, but the returns are very similar to what you might experience if you were in like a value-add type syndication. Your money’s going to be tied up, you know, three to five years. The nice thing about putting money into development is you get all of that land lift. So, that’s for us, you know when you contribute at time of land and risk your money through development and if you pick a good partner, then the risk is pretty small. But if you put your money in you get a higher return because technically that is a riskier investment, then usually those investors will be taken out either by a refinance or recap, about 90 days after stabilization, about 90% is considered stabilized. So, they get a really great lift there on the improved land, on selling as stabilized assets. So, it could be you know, a 2x or greater return, so more a little bit more risk in development, but with more risk is greater reward. So, someone told me one time no risk, no biscuit. So, I always, always remember that from a development perspective. I think that’s why investors like getting in on the development side, especially as it relates to BTR.

Ronn: I mean, it’s new, it’s sexy, it’s you know, its inception. So yeah, there’s risk no matter what in any kind of investment, right, but when you see it from the ground up, there is that emotional, if you will element and then it’s kind of like, hey, I helped give birth to this thing. 

Rachael: Totally. It’s very, very rewarding feeling.

Ronn: Yeah, for sure.

Martin: So, do you actually see a trend where more apartment dwellers over time will make a shift to BTR style single family home rentals?

Rachael: Yes, we do. We do compete on some level with, I would say Class A apartment dwellers, especially people that have been in like the apartment life or apartment scene for a long time. Usually, we see people make the jump when they get into a relationship or maybe they decide they’re tired of having a roommate. So, they want something a little bit more dignified, a little bit different than their previous experience. Something that they kind of write home about, if you will without having to go all in on a home purchase. So yeah, we do attract some of that class A residents, but we also attract from the for sale, home side people looking to get out of homeownership. So, it’s kind of like a happy medium.

Martin: A good mix.

Ronn: For sure. And what is your average tenured resident, since you’ve been in the game for long enough? I’m sure you see multiple lease renewals. What is that? 

Rachael: We do. Yeah, Christopher Todd, we’ve seen retention rates as high as 65%. Just kind of depends upon the sub-market you’re in, sometimes we see a little bit more transition. You know, recent college grads, they set up shop, they get a great job, maybe they’re there two years and then they get a better job and so they jump out to a different part of the nation. But we do see great retention, like I said as high as 65% at times.

Ronn: That’s awesome. Do you guys also see like people jumping, like I know you mentioned one and two bedrooms. So, you know, obviously in that demographic, sometimes they, especially if they’re starting out in life or whatever, trying to downsize then they realize wait, I need more room. You know, especially maybe during the pandemic, like I need a two bedroom or three bedrooms. Do you see any movement since you guys do have a collaborative property?

Rachael: Yes, we do. We don’t typically lose residents back to traditional apartment dwelling. If we lose them, we’re going to lose them due to some kind of migration. So, they’re gonna move to a different part of the country or they’re going to make the leap into homeownership because it’s kind of a steppingstone. But we don’t usually see them go back into apartment living.

Ronn: Yeah. The benefit for Christopher Todd is you guys are moving across the country, right? So, you’re like, you’re moving over there. We got you.

Rachael: We got you and because we’re a real estate brand and that’s what we want our homes to be like. You know, when you go to Starbucks and you order your order, you know what you’re gonna get, and it doesn’t matter if you’re in California or Maine, right? Like it is going to be the same order. We want people to have that same experience at Christopher Todd. So, if they’re living in Arizona and they get a great opportunity in Florida, they can just pop right over to another community. And it just feels like home from day one.

Ronn: For sure. Yeah, well, that’s exciting. I really want to say thank you so much for joining our podcast. I hate to cut it short, but this has been amazing. I personally have so many more questions, but we want to make it short and sweet for our audience. But before we go, do you have any news or fun updates that you’d like to share on behalf of your company?

Rachael: Sure. We’re just really excited right now, is kind of a weird time in the capital markets. You know, that is a little bit hard to come by for everybody. So, we’re just taking this opportunity to land, to go find land, filled our pipeline and expand across the United States with our a heavy focus in Texas, Florida, the Carolinas, a few other sub markets that we’re vetting right now, but 2023 will be a year of just, in our group hard at work, finding the right there and developing beautiful homes for people, probably starting next year. So, keep your eyes open were we would love to serve people in those markets and if you have land in those markets, please call me.

Martin: Well, thank you so much, Rachel for joining the show today. We really look forward to watching Christopher Todd Communities, future success, keep blazing this exciting new path in the multifamily industry. Audience, please make sure to check them out at Christophertodd.com and learn more about their Build to Rent communities and see if you might want to check one out as well. Again, don’t forget to subscribe to The Multifamily Podcast at MultifamilyPodcast.com. We are on Spotify, iTunes and all the good podcasts channels, so please leave us a review. Also, get your free marketing analysis and reputation report card at ApartmentSEO.com and let our team take care of digital marketing to the next level. Until next time, bye everybody.

Rachael: Bye, bye.

Ronn: Bye guys.